Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

The same great Twins Daily coverage, now for the Vikings.

The Store


Photo

The Quickie Response Thread to the Question: Should the Twins Trade Liriano?

  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1 powrwrap

powrwrap

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 425 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:14 PM

OK, here is the concept of this thread. Please answer the question with Yes or No and then post no more than 3 sentences to explain your answer. I'll start. Should the Twins trade Francisco Liriano? No. The Twins need quality starting pitching and Liriano fits the bill. Any trade of Liriano would likely include a starting pitcher in return, probably of lower quality than Liriano. Trading him would be a net loss to the starting rotation. >Next<
[FONT=comic sans ms][COLOR=#000000]"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand." [/COLOR][/FONT]

#2 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,137 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:27 PM

Yes* *Assuming they can't get him to sign a 2 year 16-18 mil deal (w 11 mil team option for 3rd year) prior to the deadline.

#3 LaBombo

LaBombo

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,131 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:30 PM

Yes, trade him for a good prospect. His hot streak is another mirage, because he's been healthy and good exactly one time in six years since his debut. And even despite his hot streak his 2012 walk rate is the highest it's ever been, 5+ BB/9. The difference between bringing him back for one or, say, three years is the difference between taking one bad risk or three.

Edited by LaBombo, 16 July 2012 - 04:32 PM.


#4 IdahoPilgrim

IdahoPilgrim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,424 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:32 PM

Yes. This is what we were all hoping for back in April; a good run leading to trade value. His past record does not allow us the luxury of thinking "this time will be different." Let's not forget he has motivation now - a new contract; once signed, then what?

#5 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,836 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:32 PM

Yes. Francisco looks good right now but I don't trust him to continue looking good in 2013, especially not at the price he should command if he keeps this up all season long. Take the prospect and run.

#6 stringer bell

stringer bell

    Confirmed Hacker

  • Twins News Team
  • 4,227 posts
  • LocationZumbrota MN

Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:37 PM

Liriano has been erratic and unreliable. He will be a free agent after the season with no guarantee that the Twins will sign him. Please, Terry Ryan, get fair value.

#7 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,137 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:38 PM

If you check out Lirianos last 77 games (70 starts) which includes his entire terrible 2010 season he has put up the following numbers: 4.38 ERA 8.8 k/9 4.0 bb/9 1.368 WHIP Let's stop pretending like these last 9 starts or whatever are the only time he has looked decent lately. We should offer a contract based off those numbers plus a little extra for upside, thus the 2 years 16-18 million.

#8 twinswon1991

twinswon1991

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 256 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:39 PM

Yes. If he gets hurt or goes back to being "Bad Frankie" in August or September you get nothing. He is one of the few chips the Twins have that can bring back a couple high upside low level minor leaguers. SELL HIGH AND BUILD FOR A RUN IN 2015!

#9 powrwrap

powrwrap

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 425 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:48 PM

If you check out Lirianos last 77 games (70 starts) which includes his entire terrible 2010 season he has put up the following numbers:

4.38 ERA
8.8 k/9
4.0 bb/9
1.368 WHIP

Let's stop pretending like these last 9 starts or whatever are the only time he has looked decent lately.

We should offer a contract based off those numbers plus a little extra for upside, thus the 2 years 16-18 million.


His BB/9IP of 5.05 in 2012 is inflated by a slow start in April.
[FONT=comic sans ms][COLOR=#000000]"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand." [/COLOR][/FONT]

#10 Guest_USAFChief_*

Guest_USAFChief_*
  • Guests

Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:57 PM

No, unless a reasonable 3 yr extension has already been discussed and hes not interested.

#11 LastOnePicked

LastOnePicked

    Member

  • Members
  • 60 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:01 PM

Yes. I feel bad for saying this, but I want him traded for HIS sake more than the team's. It'd be fun to see him work under a pitching coach who might know, well, what he's doing with top-level talent. To me, Francisco is just another case of a foreign ballplayer who gets his name anglicized by Gardy, gets labeled a head case by the coaching staff and gets derailed from a promising career until he gets an opportunity to leave. Goodbye, Francisco -- it'll be fun watching you help a team to a pennant (even if it's the Yankees (GAG!)).

#12 Ultima Ratio

Ultima Ratio

    Super Friend

  • Members
  • 1,749 posts
  • LocationAt my computer

Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:08 PM

Yes Trade now for something and sign him in the offseason if possible.
Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

#13 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,836 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:11 PM

Yes. I feel bad for saying this, but I want him traded for HIS sake more than the team's. It'd be fun to see him work under a pitching coach who might know, well, what he's doing with top-level talent. To me, Francisco is just another case of a foreign ballplayer who gets his name anglicized by Gardy, gets labeled a head case by the coaching staff and gets derailed from a promising career until he gets an opportunity to leave. Goodbye, Francisco -- it'll be fun watching you help a team to a pennant (even if it's the Yankees (GAG!)).


Yeah, I really wish Rick Anderson would have gotten more out of Johan Santana. Such a waste.

#14 Kobs

Kobs

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 301 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:13 PM

Yes. He's not staying either way. Why does anyone think that Liriano wants to stay in Minnesota?

#15 Top Gun

Top Gun

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,253 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:14 PM

No, they should try every means to sign him first, they will not find anyone better.

#16 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,560 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:21 PM

I'd even offer him 3/24 today... and if he says No, absolutely trade him.

#17 108 Double Stitches

108 Double Stitches

    Member

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:29 PM

Yes. First you get some return in the trade. And freeing the time of the staff of one underachieving (although very talented) pitcher may yield benefits to the other auditioning SP canidates. So possible some addition by subtractoin on that front.

#18 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,836 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:30 PM

Yes. He's not staying either way. Why does anyone think that Liriano wants to stay in Minnesota?


Its large latin fanbase?

#19 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,251 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:53 PM

Yes. These notions of a "reasonable" extension are laughable. And I wouldn't pay what he ultimately is going to get this offseason. Get value why you still can.

#20 Guest_USAFChief_*

Guest_USAFChief_*
  • Guests

Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:54 PM

Yes. He's not staying either way. Why does anyone think that Liriano wants to stay in Minnesota?


Why does anyone think he doesnt?

#21 Kobs

Kobs

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 301 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:07 PM

Why does anyone think he doesnt?


Constant financial, philosophical and medical clashes? The fact that the Twins are completely awful?

#22 darin617

darin617

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 609 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:10 PM

I'd even offer him 3/24 today... and if he says No, absolutely trade him.


Why would he accept 3/24? His agent would never let that happen right now. In other words trade him before he starts to struggle.

#23 beckmt

beckmt

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 836 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:14 PM

Yes, Assuming he will not sign a team friendly extension we need to get value before he leaves for nothing. Exception would be if the Twins plan on making the 12.5 million qualifing offer and the offers are not that good.

#24 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,230 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:55 PM

Yes, because I don't think they can get a hometown discount, and he's on a super hot streak that inflates his value in everyone's head, including his and his agent's.
Lighten up Francis....

#25 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,154 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:10 PM

His BB/9IP of 5.05 in 2012 is inflated by a slow start in April.


Good thing we don't count April! Or odd number years for Frankie - now I get why people think he's an ace!

#26 BrentMpls

BrentMpls

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 175 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:10 PM

Yes they should try to trade him. -He is not reliable. Showing glimmers of good wont make up for the melt downs. -Twins can't afford to offer him a deal for fear he may accept it. Unless the Pohlads raise the payroll paying Liriano will make next years budget almost filled up before any other acquisitions might be made, as things currently stand.

#27 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,154 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:12 PM

Deal him. This guy is barely better than Blackburn and Pavano statistically - it is nothing short of delusion to think he's going to take a cupcake deal or somehow magically transform into an ace. It's not impossible, but it's a comically stupid bad bet to invest in this guy beyond an entirely incentive laden deal.

#28 Guest_USAFChief_*

Guest_USAFChief_*
  • Guests

Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:22 PM

One would think if he's so terrible he would jump at 3/$24.

#29 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 4,755 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:51 PM

yes, but only if they get decent value (aka not a #5 pitcher). Otherwise, bite the bullet and offer 12.5.

#30 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,154 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 09:04 PM

One would think if he's so terrible he would jump at 3/$24.


You're right, it's entirely plausible that the following thought will run through Liriano's head:

"I'm a terrible pitcher most of the time....I should jump at this mediocre offer from one of baseball's worst teams who I have had repeated issues with about my pitch selection, offseason routine, delivery, pitching to contact, and medical issues. I mean....they're fools for offering an inconsistent schmuck like me this kind of money....Deal!"

That is pretty far-fetched. Just because Liriano is as mediocre to bad as he statistically is doesn't mean he realizes that. And he HAS to realize that fact in order for the "sign him for a team friendly deal" argument to make any sense. So out of one corner of your mouth you think he's a "frontline starter" and out of the other (in some truly baffling logic) you believe Frankie knows how bad he is. It's just so damn silly I'm amazed anyone seriously believes it.