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Trade Span or Trade Willingham?

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#1 strumdatjag

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:25 AM

Presuming there are equally reasonable offers for both: Who would you prefer to go and who to stay? I would vote to keep Span and trade Willingham, because of Denard's defense and reliable record as a leadoff hitter. Trading Willngham opens up left field for the weak armed but speedy Ben Revere. The Twins have Trevor Plouffe to provide power from the right side of the plate, Aaron Hicks may develop power as a switch hitter (he's showing some power in AA-Ball) and it's likely that a right handed power-DH will be available in future free agency.

Edited by strumdatjag, 16 July 2012 - 10:29 AM.


#2 DPJ

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:47 AM

Trade them both. I know it would be a dick punch to the fans but neither player will be around when this team is ready to compete again. I'm not sold on Revere yet and who know would the hell could play LF but if teams are offering you the arms you need to rebuild this rotation, the Twins should hesitate moving either of these guys.

#3 spideyo

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:52 AM

We've got plenty of prospects in the "speedy centerfield leadoff hitter" mold. We don't exactly have a huge stockpile of Mashers. Plus, Span DOES have a history of head issues, between the concussions and the weird inner-ear issue he had a few years ago, so there is no guarantee that he'll be a long-term solution. Right now we'd be selling pretty high on him. Other things to consider: Trading Willingham now sends a bad message to other FA's we want to attract. Basically, we're saying that if you perform well but the team struggles, we're going to send you out immediately. Why would anyone want to be in that situation? People like to play for a contender, but they also like to not switch teams every 5-6 months. While Willingham could be replaced in the future through FA, Span can be replaced RIGHT NOW with in-house candidates. A whole lot easier to slide Revere over to Center than hope we get lucky finding another guy who can hit homers at Target Field. Homeruns alone won't win games, but they certainly help, and they definitely drive fan interest. Odds are good that by the end of the season, Willingham will have hit more homers than any other Twin at Target Field in the last three seasons combined (currently Thome holds the record with 21 in a Twins uniform). His batting style is an excellent fit for this park. Are we really ready to dump that?

#4 DPJ

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:58 AM

Homeruns alone won't win games, but they certainly help, and they definitely drive fan interest. Odds are good that by the end of the season, Willingham will have hit more homers than any other Twin at Target Field in the last three seasons combined (currently Thome holds the record with 21 in a Twins uniform). His batting style is an excellent fit for this park. Are we really ready to dump that?


And what good do all those homers do for the team that's gonna lose another 90+ games?

#5 Tcrose3636

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:11 AM

I think trading Willingham makes more sense. I fear that the outfield defense would not be that good with Willingham - Revere - Parmalee, I would rather see Revere - Span - Parmalee. But if we are a few starting pitching free agent signs away to be competitive again, I think keeping them both would make sense. I like the outfield of Willingham - Span - Revere (minus the crap arm strength) but I like the Span, Revere, Mauer, Willingham batting order.

#6 spideyo

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:12 AM

And what good do all those homers do for the team that's gonna lose another 90+ games?



Sell tickets.

Also, all those homers might not help the team win a ton this year, but if we can make some serious starting pitching improvements for 2013, all those homers will do wonders when we aren't losing by 5 runs before the 4th inning

#7 nicksaviking

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:16 AM

Are we sure that the Twins are't considering trading Revere rathar than Span? There has been no recent talk of it, but Revere's stock was rock bottom after he was sent down to start the season and people on this site were talking about moving him then. His value has gone way up since. During their careers, Span will likely a better OBP guy and can realisitically play all three outfield positions where as Revere would not be considered for RF by 29 teams in the league. However, he's young, cheap, can hit any pitch and could challnege any ballplayer in a foot race. Some teams put speed as one of the top, if not the top attribute for a ball player. Depending on the GM, Revere may get more, possibly a lot more, than Span could in a trade.

#8 minn55441

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:19 AM

We've got plenty of prospects in the "speedy centerfield leadoff hitter" mold. We don't exactly have a huge stockpile of Mashers. Plus, Span DOES have a history of head issues, between the concussions and the weird inner-ear issue he had a few years ago, so there is no guarantee that he'll be a long-term solution. Right now we'd be selling pretty high on him.

Other things to consider:
Trading Willingham now sends a bad message to other FA's we want to attract. Basically, we're saying that if you perform well but the team struggles, we're going to send you out immediately. Why would anyone want to be in that situation? People like to play for a contender, but they also like to not switch teams every 5-6 months.

While Willingham could be replaced in the future through FA, Span can be replaced RIGHT NOW with in-house candidates. A whole lot easier to slide Revere over to Center than hope we get lucky finding another guy who can hit homers at Target Field.

Homeruns alone won't win games, but they certainly help, and they definitely drive fan interest. Odds are good that by the end of the season, Willingham will have hit more homers than any other Twin at Target Field in the last three seasons combined (currently Thome holds the record with 21 in a Twins uniform). His batting style is an excellent fit for this park. Are we really ready to dump that?


I agree totally. We need pitching, only give up what can easily be expected to be replaced. The odds of us finding another centerfield/leadoff hitter are much better than ever finding another righthanded power hitter.

Everyone seems to have hit rock bottom because of the 3 game sweep by Oakland, but honestly nothing has changed. We have a competitive team with no starting pitching. Keep the competitive lineup and acquire pitching. We can be competitive next year (maybe not win the division) but competitive enough to be above .500 and be in the wild card mix, if we get some pitching. Spend some money and acquire them through FA, without trading away players we need.

#9 beckmt

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:28 AM

Twins hitting will be irrelevant without decent starting pitching. I am for trading anything for pitching that can miss bats. Clubs like Toronto and Oakland have learned to swing hard against the pitch to contact pitchers. When these type of pitchers are slightly off their pitches end up in the bleachers. No club can survive 5.5 starting pitching ERA. If you figure that only maybe 10 - 20% will ever make or do well in the major leagues- the twins need numbers of good arms to find the right pitchers.

#10 chopper0080

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:31 AM

Trade Span, Liriano and Capps (if possible) if you get offered legitimate pitching prospects, and if not, trade Span in the winter, make a qualifying offer to Liriano, and decide if picking up Capps option makes us a better team than not.

#11 DPJ

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:45 AM

Sell tickets.

Also, all those homers might not help the team win a ton this year, but if we can make some serious starting pitching improvements for 2013, all those homers will do wonders when we aren't losing by 5 runs before the 4th inning


The only way the Twins are gonna compete in the next couple seasons is to pay out the ass for Grienke, Hamels and everyother functioning pitcher on the market. Since there's a less then zero % chance the Twins will break the bank for even one of those guys I don't see how this team is suppose to suddenly suppose to rebuild an entire rotation in a season.

#12 spideyo

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:46 AM

We all need to remember to, that unlike last year, not a single one of our position players will hit Free Agency at the end of the season. In fact, Pavano and Liriano are the only guys who will be eligible for FA that don't have a club option. So basically, to move ANYBODY right now, they need to decide if the offer is better than what they will get in the off-season. Other teams that are in the basement right now, might see Span/Willingham/Morneau/etc. as potentially valuable pieces to rebuild around, but aren't going to chase after them right now.

#13 glanzer

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:10 PM

I'm strongly in favor of keeping Willingham. Aside from his numbers, I think it looks terrible from an organizational standpoint to trade a guy in the first year of a three-year contract... it's been said before, but what free agent is going to be comfortable signing here in the future knowing the Twins could just ship them right out the door in a few months. Following Ginger Willingham on Twitter it certainly seems the family loves it in MN... I'm sure Terry Ryan would think twice about the family situation before uprooting the Willinghams and making a trade. Not to say Span isn't in the same situation, but he didn't just uproot his family and move to MN within the past few months.

#14 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:35 PM

If I had to pick between the two, and the offers were the same, I would trade Willingham and keep Span. Span can be part of a winning lineup for years into the future, whereas Willingham is on the wrong side of the bell-curve when it comes to career longevity.

#15 mike wants wins

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:45 PM

Both? If both is not an option, I choose Willingham, he's 33 and not always noted for being healthy, and isn't great in the field. I'm operating under the assumption they won't sign a bunch of FAs, so they won't be good again next year, so the only way to get better is to have lots of guys in high A, or AA, that all come up together.
Lighten up Francis....

#16 snepp

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:54 PM

Sell tickets.


Wins sell tickets, not homers.

#17 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:58 PM

The Twins need Willingham's right handed bat more than they need Span's glove so I say trade Span. But really, it all depends on what teams are willing to pay for each.

#18 bronald3030

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:46 PM

Trade Span and prospects for Shields.

#19 PMKI

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 02:22 PM

Trade them both.

#20 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 02:44 PM

The Twins need Willingham's right handed bat more than they need Span's glove so I say trade Span.

But really, it all depends on what teams are willing to pay for each.


Concur.

#21 Mayhem25

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 03:12 PM

Trade Span. Revere has shown in the minors he can hit and it looks like he's starting to figure it out in the Majors. This is just my opinion, but I think Span is avg defensively at best and wouldn't be hurt on defense by trading him. I'm sure the metrics say otherwise but the test I see a tentative OF who rarely is aggressive going after balls.

#22 papabaseball

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 03:18 PM

Presuming there are equally reasonable offers for both: Who would you prefer to go and who to stay? I would vote to keep Span and trade Willingham, because of Denard's defense and reliable record as a leadoff hitter. Trading Willngham opens up left field for the weak armed but speedy Ben Revere. The Twins have Trevor Plouffe to provide power from the right side of the plate, Aaron Hicks may develop power as a switch hitter (he's showing some power in AA-Ball) and it's likely that a right handed power-DH will be available in future free agency.


You must not watch or read about the Twin's games.Span has very non-productive at bats and is a horrible fielder. Willingham has only been best twin player so far this year.

#23 Vervehound

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 03:35 PM

Trade them both.


ryan deserves praise for signing willingham and those that point out we can't develop power hitters are right, but it really doesn't make much sense to keep him as he won't be here when we're competitive next. he makes this team slightly less unpleasant to watch, but that shouldn't be a criteria for keeping him.

span's redundant and is a prime asset right now with his age and contract. show that the organization knows how to maximize value on something and sell high.

it's more of a kick in the nuts to the fans to keep anything resembling the status quo. blow up whatever you need and get some goddamn arms in house.

#24 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:19 PM

and decide if picking up Capps option makes us a better team than not.


It won't.

#25 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:23 PM

ryan deserves praise for signing willingham and those that point out we can't develop power hitters are right, but it really doesn't make much sense to keep him as he won't be here when we're competitive next.


There is zero reason why this team can't be competitive in 2014 (Willingham's final year), and there is a decent chance we can be competitive in 2013 if Ryan keeps up the good work. They should have 25-30 mil to spend next off-season (even more if they trade Span) and quite a bit more when Morneau's money comes off the book prior to 2014. I'd be pretty dissapointed if we don't win the division in 2014.

In addition Willingham has already stated he likes Minnesota and could see himself with the team even after his contract ends. (per mlbtraderumors)

#26 drjim

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:45 PM

If offers were the same I would trade Span, as I think Willingham is a more valuable player and Span is more easily replaceable. I guess I don't get the speed to trade Willingham. He fills an obvious need for the team and I would think the team would take a hit with the casual fan if they trade him. It's possible he gets seriously injured but it's also possible he hits relatively the same for the next calender year and you can move him at next deadline as well for pretty much the same package you'll get right now.

#27 TheLeviathan

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:09 PM

There is zero reason why this team can't be competitive in 2014 (Willingham's final year)


Unlikely and even if so you are aware of how old Willingham will be right? This in addition to the fact that he has not been a durable player in his career. I love Hammer and what he's brought to the team, but if he's got high value around the league you deal him. Ditto Span - you don't trade just to trade, but if the value is there you make the move.

#28 Vervehound

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:16 PM

There is zero reason why this team can't be competitive in 2014 (Willingham's final year), and there is a decent chance we can be competitive in 2013 if Ryan keeps up the good work. They should have 25-30 mil to spend next off-season (even more if they trade Span) and quite a bit more when Morneau's money comes off the book prior to 2014. I'd be pretty dissapointed if we don't win the division in 2014.

In addition Willingham has already stated he likes Minnesota and could see himself with the team even after his contract ends. (per mlbtraderumors)


how? what's your rotation going to be in 2014? the only way you're going to be competitive by then is by bringing a bunch of high minor arms into the system this year (which is unrealistic - quality arms in the high minors would fetch a premium. wheeler wouldn't have even qualified as such last year) and don't say free agency! we have exactly one arm in our system right now who i'm more than 50% assured will be in our rotation that year and he's busy dominating for the red wings right now.

#29 J-Dog Dungan

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:49 PM

Seems like Span has been having some trouble concentrating recently, but I would hope that he would be able to overcome it enough to get traded. I think that if I were the Twins, I would be playing Parmalee in RF a lot down in AAA. I also agree with everyone who says that the Twins should keep Willingham; it would send a horrible message if they did deal him, and his bat overcomes his problems in the field.

#30 Highabove

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:53 PM

how? what's your rotation going to be in 2014? the only way you're going to be competitive by then is by bringing a bunch of high minor arms into the system this year (which is unrealistic - quality arms in the high minors would fetch a premium. wheeler wouldn't have even qualified as such last year) and don't say free agency! we have exactly one arm in our system right now who i'm more than 50% assured will be in our rotation that year and he's busy dominating for the red wings right now.


Why not say free Agency! There is 25 million coming off the books next year. The Twins are no longer a small market Franchise. If you are not sure, go to Target Field and check out the prices.