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Article: Misconceptions

byung ho park trevor plouffe jung ho kang tsuyoshi nishioka joe mauer
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#21 Winston Smith

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:27 AM

Misconception?

It seems that the majority here want to keep Plouffe because he is very good and they want Nunez gone because he sucks.

Plouffe: .244/.307/.435/.742 99 ops+

Nunez: .282/.327/.431/.758 104 ops+
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#22 nytwinsfan

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:44 AM

 

has anyone talked about the idea of moving ploooof to the outfield? 

 

he was out there before he grew up and matured as a GREAT hitter! 

 

thoughts?

You must be new here.

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#23 Han Joelo

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:51 AM

After reading this article:
http://www.hardballt...-third-basemen/

I am strongly in favor of maintaining depth (keep Plouffe). Organizational depth at third base goes Plouffe, Sano...Nunez...Escobar............????

I like the win now mentality. The Twins "getaway" day lineup will be just as good as the regular. With Polanco, Kepler, and Vargas as depth, the injury depleted lineup won't look bad either.
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#24 Shaitan

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 01:00 PM

 

I never criticized the Nishioka signing and won't criticize this one At least we didn't let go of Hardy because of this signing.  :We have some depth in case it doesn't work out.  I do hope Sano in the outfield is temporary because I am hoping to see an outfield of Rosario, Buxton and Kepler

 

If Plouffe is traded and then Park fails, then the Nishioka comparisons can be made...


#25 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 01:19 PM

 

After reading this article:
http://www.hardballt...-third-basemen/

I am strongly in favor of maintaining depth (keep Plouffe). Organizational depth at third base goes Plouffe, Sano...Nunez...Escobar............????

I like the win now mentality. The Twins "getaway" day lineup will be just as good as the regular. With Polanco, Kepler, and Vargas as depth, the injury depleted lineup won't look bad either.

 

Ok I could be on board with this, but the key quote from your link is:

 

 

Based on past history, odds are long that the Twins will try to lock down Plouffe long term. Instead, they’ll probably just get an inexpensive veteran as a stopgap before handing the job to a prospect.

 

Throughout the article, he fails to mention who that "prospect" might be...  :) 

 

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#26 rghrbek

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 01:25 PM

Per Gleeman, nobody has played a 100 games at a listed weight above 250lbs in over 50 years (in RF)....I know I wrote earlier that I think Sano is athletic enough, but...that is an interesting observation he makes.

 

I also like his point about why make iffy moves for a guy who has a career .245 ba, .308 OBP, and a .420 SLG? 

I think we may be over valuing Ploufe both on the trade market and his value to the team...


#27 Tom Froemming

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 01:37 PM

Beginning to think another misconception is that Plouffe has real value on the trade market. Maybe other teams are just not interested.

#28 big dog

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 01:49 PM

 

Per Gleeman, nobody has played a 100 games at a listed weight above 250lbs in over 50 years (in RF)....I know I wrote earlier that I think Sano is athletic enough, but...that is an interesting observation he makes.

 

I also like his point about why make iffy moves for a guy who has a career .245 ba, .308 OBP, and a .420 SLG? 

I think we may be over valuing Ploufe both on the trade market and his value to the team...

How many baseball players have BEEN over 250 pounds (not counting pitchers and first basemen)?  I bet there haven't been very many third basemen who played more than 100 games while over 250 pounds either, so this stat argues he shouldn't be there either.

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#29 Han Joelo

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 01:51 PM

 

Ok I could be on board with this, but the key quote from your link is:

 

 

Throughout the article, he fails to mention who that "prospect" might be... :)

Yeah, I admit I found that odd.  I got the impression he isn't a Twins fan and somehow didn't know anything about Sano--he was just writing an article highlighting the past two decades of near-futility at the position.

 

At any rate, Plouffe provides short-term depth and experience.  Unless his trade value is sky-high, might as well keep him, imo.


#30 Vanimal46

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 02:07 PM

 

How many baseball players have BEEN over 250 pounds (not counting pitchers and first basemen)?  I bet there haven't been very many third basemen who played more than 100 games while over 250 pounds either, so this stat argues he shouldn't be there either.

 

You make a good point.. it would be an incredibly SSS so the stat you replied to doesn't have a whole lot of merit. Only a very short list of people I can think of....

 

Pablo Sandoval - guy has to be pushing 275 these days and still plays 100+ games a season at 3B

Jason Heyward - Also helps that he's 6'5" so he's just a large man in general

Nelson Cruz - Another big guy in the OF


#31 Blackjack

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 02:39 PM

 

Thanks, Seth.

 

As a moderator, I just want to add that I've been seeing a lot of disrespect floating around ... Ryan lied, Ryan's stupid, the Twins are cheap, etc. You may have strong feelings one way or another about how this team is run; I know I do, and I've stated it many times over the years so it's no secret. But let's be better in our rebuttals and disagreements and not go this easy route.

 

For me, I was shocked at what Park signed for. But he signed it, and his agent worked this deal as much as Ryan. Maybe Park wanted out of Korea and would have taken anything and Ryan knew that? Don't know, and neither do you. Maybe it's truly a fair deal and only time will tell. So when you start making assumptions and stating opinions, be clear about that and leave the disrespect behind.

$12 million dollars is still a lot of money!!! I think I could feed my family with that.

 

If he was unhappy with the money he could have shot for a shorter 2-3 years deal. He didn't have much leverage.

 

$12 million dollars is a lot of money!!!!!!!!!!!


#32 Carole Keller

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 02:41 PM

 

$12 million dollars is still a lot of money!!! I think I could feed my family with that.

 

If he was unhappy with the money he could have shot for a shorter 2-3 years deal. He didn't have much leverage.

 

$12 million dollars is a lot of money!!!!!!!!!!!

Yup. My 'shock' wasn't so much that it wasn't a lot of money, I just thought the market would set it higher.

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Nevertheless, she persisted. Time’s up.

#33 old nurse

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 03:37 PM

 

Misconception?

It seems that the majority here want to keep Plouffe because he is very good and they want Nunez gone because he sucks.

Plouffe: .244/.307/.435/.742 99 ops+

Nunez: .282/.327/.431/.758 104 ops+

CareerWRC favors Plouffe, career OPS+ favors Plouffe. Nunez had a career year.

 


#34 DocBauer

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 03:49 PM

Tremendous write up Seth! Couldn't agree more!

 

Not only did Park sign the deal that he and his agent worked out, but there isn't exactly a precedent set for how well Korean talent will translate to MLB. Park is what, the second guy ever? So while I am very surprised and think the Twins may have gotten a deal here, it's still a lot of money. Also, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't he have another $1M per based on 400 AB's?

 

There is nothing wrong with keeping Plouffe at this time. I think a lot of us have said that. But the fact is, without Sano moving to the OF...or someone...there is a logjam at 1B/3B/DH unless someone is injured. My problem with moving Sano to the OF isn't that he couldn't learn to do it, maybe even learn to do it well...but...how exactly does him learning to play OF actually help the OF defensively? Further, let's say it takes a season, (at least), and probably two before he gets really comfortable and looks really good out there. Let's say he looks really, really good even. What happens in two more years when Plouffe is a FA? Does he bolt? Does he fade? Do we sign in him an extension before that? 

 

And what about Kepler and Walker, along with Buxton and Rosario? Does the OF get too crowded in a year or so? I'm not saying we have to trade Plouffe, or that we should trade him. But I am saying there may be a decent return for him, we may break up a bit of a logjam personnel wise, and we aren't putting square pegs in to round holes yet again.

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#35 Charleo

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 04:21 PM

 

has anyone talked about the idea of moving ploooof to the outfield? 

 

he was out there before he grew up and matured as a GREAT hitter! 

 

thoughts?

I mentioned this in the comments of the original "Sano is going to the outfield" article and was roundly flogged for it.Those that took exception noted that Plouffe is slower (not a deal breaker in my opinion) but also that Plouffe is already an above average 3b, so moving him for a player we're unsure of (but would most likely be league average as he's still learning the position) plus putting below average outfield defense out there in Plouffe would be downgrading two positions defensively.Valid points, and I guess it was hard to argue.

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#36 Dantes929

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 04:25 PM

 

Good stuff Seth (although "able to handle right field" might need to be clarified, as Cuddy really struggled at Target Field).However, I do agree that Sano is the better athlete and could play RF from an athletic standpoint.

 

I also tend to agree with Platoon and a few others when it comes to Ploufe.It just feels like there is not going to be a better time to move him.Maybe we don't get that much, but how will that change moving forward?

 

Terry appears pretty adamant on this though.I guess we will see.

If we don't get that much and it doesn't change moving forward what difference does it make if we move him now or later?  If we don't get that much for him now then I am just fine with keeping him.

 

Too early for this?

1. Buxton

2. Mauer

3. Sano

4. Park

5. Plouffe

6. Escobar

7. Dozier

8. Rosario

9. Susuki/Murphy

Right now this is better than anything we put out there if Sano does not play outfield, at least until Kepler is up.  

Don't Sweat the Small Stuff ... and it's all small stuff.

#37 notoriousgod71

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 04:49 PM

We are going to regret getting rid of Arcia... and at this point I don't see a way he is here long term and that is frustrating to me.

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#38 Danchat

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 04:52 PM

 

Misconception?

It seems that the majority here want to keep Plouffe because he is very good and they want Nunez gone because he sucks.

Plouffe: .244/.307/.435/.742 99 ops+

Nunez: .282/.327/.431/.758 104 ops+

Eh... Nunez played about 1/3 of the season, compared to Plouffe's full season. (204 PAs to 632 PAs)

 

To his credit, Nunez had a good season and deserves a bench spot on almost any team. However, if he played a full season, I'm confident his numbers would have regressed.


#39 jimmer

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 05:23 PM

 

Misconception?

It seems that the majority here want to keep Plouffe because he is very good and they want Nunez gone because he sucks.

Plouffe: .244/.307/.435/.742 99 ops+

Nunez: .282/.327/.431/.758 104 ops+

Well, there's defense too.  We aren't comparing DHs here. Also Plouffe has over 4100 IP at 3B and Nunez has less than 800 IP. There's also the fact that the comparisons given above are for one season and fail to mention Plouffe had more than 3 times as many PAs

 


#40 ashburyjohn

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 05:38 PM

I mentioned this in the comments of the original "Sano is going to the outfield" article and was roundly flogged for it.Those that took exception noted that Plouffe is slower (not a deal breaker in my opinion) but also that Plouffe is already an above average 3b, so moving him for a player we're unsure of (but would most likely be league average as he's still learning the position) plus putting below average outfield defense out there in Plouffe would be downgrading two positions defensively.Valid points, and I guess it was hard to argue.

Wow, somebody's mind got changed on an issue? This never would have happened, on Facebook.

 

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