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Dumping grounds for Valencia (and Casilla)

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#1 Shane Wahl

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 01:14 AM

I am hoping that the Twins will at least be able to get some kind of value back for these two players, the first with almost certainly no future (aside from that platoon thing involving Mor . . . ) with the Twins, and the second with likely no future with the Twins. Only a team desperate due to lack of production at 3B or 2B is likely going to bother (aside from those teams with an extra roster spot for a pinch-hitter vs. lefties in the playoffs or a pinch-runner late in games in the playoffs). The Nationals have problems at 3B and 2B, with Ryan Zimmerman struggling and Danny Espinosa being terrible. Valencia or Casilla would only be motivation for these starters to get their acts together. The Phillies are rapidly falling, so I don't know if they would bother. Polanco looks to be about done, though. The two most likely target may be the Giants, primarily at 2B with the worst than lackluster performances of Ryan Theriot and Emmanuel Burriss. But those two are also 3B depth for the Giants as well, so Valencia might be in the picture there too. Robert Andino is not very good for the Orioles, so both Valencia and Casilla may be appealing to Baltimore if that team can keep it together in July. So hopefully someone will bite on Casilla and hopefully Valencia starts even hitting like he did last year for the Twins at Rochester.

#2 Riverbrian

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:03 AM

I am slightly confused about Casilla. I really don't understand why he doesn't get more playing time. He's not Robinson Cano... I get that but he's a pretty nice defensive player with good speed and it's not like he can't reach base from time to time. In the context of this team it seems like he should have a little bigger role than he has. There must be something about Casilla that is bugging Gardenhire cuz he's been on the outside looking in for awhile now. They keep trying to pencil him in and he keeps getting taken out and there doesn't seem to be any patience with him. Casilla has some value because of his speed, defense and experience and age. For those reasons... I'd love for the Twins to keep him instead of cashing in that value for a low level prospect. I'm a Carroll fan... He's a ballplayer. The thing is Carroll's age and my opinion that the Twins need to get younger. Casilla would be my choice between the two for that reason. Valencia on the other hand. He will end up a bench player for someone. Either the Twins or someone else but I don't see much trade value for him. He lost his job to no one. That is a pretty loud statement. We don't have a third baseman to replace you and we are going with that option. Will someone take a chance on him... I suppose but he seems like the guy who can be that player that Burroughs was supposed to be out of spring training if he has improved in Rochester... And that I don't know. I haven't been able to watch him play since the demotion. Trevor Plouffe is without question the 3b for now and Tomorrow in Minnesota.

#3 Top Gun

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:13 AM

Gray is looking like he could be good trade bait and I still think someone would still take Blackie.

#4 Shane Wahl

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:32 AM

No one will trade for Jeff Gray. Pitchers of that quality are quite easily found in AAA or on the waiver wire. No one will take on Blackburn's ridiculous contract, even at one remaining stupid year! He is now the worst starter in baseball! As far as Casilla goes . . . . PATIENCE! How many years does he need? This is his 6th year. He is soon turning 28. In limited time in 2010, he was good. In 2008 he was pretty good. The second half of last season he was pretty good. Other than these spots, he has been Luis Rivasesque. And he will be set to make about $2 million next year. He is the definition of a replaceable player . . . replaced with a $480k guy like Florimon. Valencia's 2010 numbers and his 2011 bit of power (and his pre 2012 excellence against lefties) still makes him mildly valuable for a team looking for an MLB player to fill a particular role (you know, teams with very good rosters and one little situational hole). I am not sure what the Twins would get back, but there is no point keeping either one of them. A hard thrower with moderate control at any level of baseball would be worth each of them.

#5 Thrylos

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:40 AM

I am slightly confused about Casilla. I really don't understand why he doesn't get more playing time. He's not Robinson Cano... I get that but he's a pretty nice defensive player with good speed and it's not like he can't reach base from time to time. In the context of this team it seems like he should have a little bigger role than he has. There must be something about Casilla that is bugging Gardenhire cuz he's been on the outside looking in for awhile now. They keep trying to pencil him in and he keeps getting taken out and there doesn't seem to be any patience with him. Casilla has some value because of his speed, defense and experience and age. For those reasons... I'd love for the Twins to keep him instead of cashing in that value for a low level prospect. I'm a Carroll fan... He's a ballplayer. The thing is Carroll's age and my opinion that the Twins need to get younger. Casilla would be my choice between the two for that reason. .


Totally agree. He just turned 27 and he is entering his prime. And this season has turned the corner with the glove. And he has been hitting but needs more consistent time to him with more consistency. If there is one who should not be in the Twins' future is Carroll. He is old. Casilla is not and the Twins do not have a pipeline of middle infielders in the minors. For some reason Casilla has been in the doghouse. Might be that he is Latin and there is not good communication with him and the manager and the coaches (and he would not be the first Latin player who has communication isssues in minny.) Who knows, but he deserves more playing time.
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#6 Shane Wahl

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:53 AM

Casilla turns 28 in a few weeks and has been in the majors for 6 seasons. His offensive numbers are almost as bad as they have ever been.

#7 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 09:10 AM

I am slightly confused about Casilla. I really don't understand why he doesn't get more playing time. He's not Robinson Cano... I get that but he's a pretty nice defensive player with good speed and it's not like he can't reach base from time to time. In the context of this team it seems like he should have a little bigger role than he has. There must be something about Casilla that is bugging Gardenhire cuz he's been on the outside looking in for awhile now.


Perhaps that he's the 4th best middle infilder on the team? :)

I think the ship has pretty much sailed with Alexi. He is what he is, a decent utility guy who is about to get expensive. I'm guessing he's done in MN after this season and will end up signing a lot of 1 or 2 year prove it contracts. I doubt we will get much of all of value for him, if we do, we should be building a shrine to Terry Ryan at TF somewhere.

As for Valencia, there's hope for getting something of value for him, though not this year. He had a good rookie campaign and has always hit in the minors. Should he figure things out in AAA, I could see him pushing Plouffe into a middle infielder role (which I'd personally welcome) and retaking 3B. Otherwise, he might be a decent trade chip for someone somewhere if Plouffe cannot move, but that is solely dependent on him figuring things out, which to this point, he has not.

And blackburn... OK, seriously, we couldn't give him away right now.

#8 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 09:29 AM

Totally agree. He just turned 27 and he is entering his prime. And this season has turned the corner with the glove. And he has been hitting but needs more consistent time to him with more consistency. If there is one who should not be in the Twins' future is Carroll. He is old. Casilla is not and the Twins do not have a pipeline of middle infielders in the minors. For some reason Casilla has been in the doghouse. Might be that he is Latin and there is not good communication with him and the manager and the coaches (and he would not be the first Latin player who has communication isssues in minny.) Who knows, but he deserves more playing time.


1) He didn't "just turn 27". He'll be 28 in a couple of weeks.

2) He's had over 1,600 plate appearances and 5 seasons to establish himself as the regular 2B or SS, and he hasn't been able to do it.

3) I'm not sure what he's done to deserve more playing time. You can't keep giving him playing time based on what he did for parts of 2008 and 2010. Outside of those stretches, he just hasn't been a very good player.

#9 ancestral

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 09:34 AM

No. No teams want these players. And things can change so quickly, in a heartbeat. If Dozier, Casilla, Carroll or Plouffe gets injured, Valencia could get called up. If Dozier slumps and Valencia keeps hitting well in AAA he could still be on his way up. Things have a tendency to change quickly in the Majors.

#10 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 10:32 AM

I agree that Casilla should get more playing time. You don't choose middle infielders for their hitting ability but for their field work. In that he is greatly improved this year, and a .244 average is not that bad at all. Florimon is only hitting .248 at AAA. Is Casilla the long-term future? No. But he's a good stop-gap until someone like Michael or Rosario in class-A can make the team in a few years.

#11 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:43 PM

Casilla is no longer a stop gap... He's in his arb years now and gets very expensive.

#12 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:50 PM

Casilla has actually been healthy for the first time as a fulltime Twin. Valencia could have value right now as a RH DH/1B, backup 3B/PH vs lefties. His splits have been pretty wild. Cant hit righties/kills lefties. Gray has no use & I would dump him 2 months ago if our AAA relievers coulda stayed healthy. DFA Blackburn & Nishi & pay their 10m total for next yr but keep em off the 40 man.

#13 ashburyjohn

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 03:36 PM

If Dozier slumps and Valencia keeps hitting well in AAA he could still be on his way up.


I'm trying to figure out how Valencia would help the middle infield situation; he has essentially no professional experience at 2B/SS. Gardy is unlikely to move Plouffe to SS for two reasons: 1) he hated Plouffe's SS play when he was tried there; 2) he likes to give players clear roles and now that Plouffe is hitting a ton he really won't want to upset that bit of status quo.

#14 jokin

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 03:59 PM

Gardy is unlikely to move Plouffe to SS for two reasons: 1) he hated Plouffe's SS play when he was tried there;


Who didn't?

Plouffe appears to have found a home. Did you see his DP play on Cabrera last night? No more "happy feet" or throws from shortstop 10 feet over the first baseman's head. You're right about Valencia, a corner IF guy or platoon RFer are his only options. Given who has established themselves for the near term in LF and 3B, unless something opens up in right or at first, his window is closing rapidly.

#15 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 04:52 PM

Good lord, people. Still clamoring for Alexi Casilla? 1600+ MLB PAs. .251/.307/.335. Worse slash numbers across the board in 2012. Nothing special defensively at second, a proven failure at SS. 28 Yrs old in a couple weeks. Prone to mindbogglingly stupid mental lapses. Prone to injury. About to get more and more expensive. While I agree Carroll is a nice player but not a part of the Twins future, it's time to move on from Alexi Casilla.

#16 ashburyjohn

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:25 PM

Who didn't?


Not really my intention to open a Plouffe=SS discussion. Gardy's the only one with a vote, in that regard, and that was my point regarding Valencia coming back up.

#17 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:39 PM

No one will trade for Jeff Gray.


But he's 5-0!


Casilla has been somewhat productive the past two seasons. I dislike him, but he should get played a little more often to keep Dozier out of the lineup (He gets played too often).

#18 kab21

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:52 PM

Nobody is giving you anything for Casilla and Valencia. They have value as better than replacement players.

#19 Fire Dan Gladden

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:02 PM

Valencia has value and would probably be better served going to a different organization. If he figures it out, I could see him as a league average 3B Casilla is the texbook definition of a utility infielder, but can't seem to figure that out. He rminds me a lot of Louis Rivas. It's a shame because he has some of the biogger atbats in recent Twins history.

#20 Shane Wahl

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:17 PM

Valencia has value and would probably be better served going to a different organization. If he figures it out, I could see him as a league average 3B

Casilla is the texbook definition of a utility infielder, but can't seem to figure that out. He rminds me a lot of Louis Rivas. It's a shame because he has some of the biogger atbats in recent Twins history.


Yeah, I think Valencia would be better getting away from Gardenhire, absolutely. I think that is the main selling point for him, actually.

#21 Shane Wahl

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:21 PM

Nobody is giving you anything for Casilla and Valencia. They have value as better than replacement players.


For a playoff team with a roster spot, they have some value. Casilla provides speed and Valencia provides good hitting against lefties. Think of how even the Twins had the luxury of having a defense-only catcher on the roster in 2010 in Drew Butera. Granted, I am likely not going through teams rosters to see if this same thing applies with 2012 contending teams, but I bet it does.

#22 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 09:17 PM

For a playoff team with a roster spot, they have some value. Casilla provides speed and Valencia provides good hitting against lefties. Think of how even the Twins had the luxury of having a defense-only catcher on the roster in 2010 in Drew Butera. Granted, I am likely not going through teams rosters to see if this same thing applies with 2012 contending teams, but I bet it does.


No team is going to give up anything of value for Alexi Casilla. Every team in the majors has a couple infielders in their minors who can provide as much or more speed than Casilla and put up a .600 OPS.

Lefty mashers toiling away in AAA with no positional flexibility aren't at a premium either, and "lefty masher" is a bit generous regarding Valencia anyway.

#23 kab21

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 09:37 PM

For a playoff team with a roster spot, they have some value. Casilla provides speed and Valencia provides good hitting against lefties. Think of how even the Twins had the luxury of having a defense-only catcher on the roster in 2010 in Drew Butera. Granted, I am likely not going through teams rosters to see if this same thing applies with 2012 contending teams, but I bet it does.


Valencia has been terrible for 1.5 years and especially awful this year. There is no playoff team that wants to give him AB's much less give up something in return to do so. These teams have their own versions of Valencia to call up.

#24 LewFordLives

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 09:53 PM

I am slightly confused about Casilla. I really don't understand why he doesn't get more playing time. He's not Robinson Cano... I get that but he's a pretty nice defensive player with good speed and it's not like he can't reach base from time to time. In the context of this team it seems like he should have a little bigger role than he has. There must be something about Casilla that is bugging Gardenhire cuz he's been on the outside looking in for awhile now. They keep trying to pencil him in and he keeps getting taken out and there doesn't seem to be any patience with him. Casilla has some value because of his speed, defense and experience and age. For those reasons... I'd love for the Twins to keep him instead of cashing in that value for a low level prospect. I'm a Carroll fan... He's a ballplayer. The thing is Carroll's age and my opinion that the Twins need to get younger. Casilla would be my choice between the two for that reason.

Valencia on the other hand. He will end up a bench player for someone. Either the Twins or someone else but I don't see much trade value for him. He lost his job to no one. That is a pretty loud statement. We don't have a third baseman to replace you and we are going with that option. Will someone take a chance on him... I suppose but he seems like the guy who can be that player that Burroughs was supposed to be out of spring training if he has improved in Rochester... And that I don't know. I haven't been able to watch him play since the demotion. Trevor Plouffe is without question the 3b for now and Tomorrow in Minnesota.


I'm confused as well. Dozier looks really overmatched, yet Gardenhire keeps giving him the lions share of at bats. At this point I'd rather see Casilla at the plate and on the field.

#25 jokin

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 10:44 PM

The UZR/150 ratings for 2B for 2011-12 have Lexi coming it at 9th overall. Flawed stat as it may be with smaller samples and subjectivity issues, Casilla is even doing better this year, at or near the top for all 2B. Lexi usually has a couple streaks with the bat each year, still waiting on them to happen in 2012. Although he still reminds us of his occasional Lexy-istic play, his head-scratching, bonehead plays in the field are way down over historic norms and his spectacular plays are more pleasantly frequent. If he ever had trade value for someone looking for a cheap glove that can turn the DP at a high rate, this would be the year.

#26 Riverbrian

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 10:49 PM

Good lord, people. Still clamoring for Alexi Casilla?

1600+ MLB PAs. .251/.307/.335. Worse slash numbers across the board in 2012. Nothing special defensively at second, a proven failure at SS. 28 Yrs old in a couple weeks. Prone to mindbogglingly stupid mental lapses. Prone to injury. About to get more and more expensive.

While I agree Carroll is a nice player but not a part of the Twins future, it's time to move on from Alexi Casilla.


Im not clamoring... I'm confused... Gardy never seemed to show any patience with Casilla. He seemed to have a different comfort level with Punto and Tolbert. Im not sure why... I've always been comfortable with Alexi as a backup or whatever. I will point out that His best years came with full time play but my comfort level stops when the big money comes knocking.

#27 jokin

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 11:10 PM

Earlier I proposed that the Tigers might be interesed in Casilla, much like they readily took another Twins castoff in Delmon last year. In case you are wondering, in the field, both Santiago and Raburn have negative UZR numbers over the below time frame, with Raburn being exceptionally awful and as Santiago showed last night, capable of multiple Lexi-like moments of his own.

2011-12 numbers

Casilla 255/309/350 Age 28 Salary $1.38 Mil

Tigers primary 2Bs:

Santiago 248/307/356 Age 32 Salary $2.1 Mil
Raburn 234/279/381 Age 31 Salary $ 2.1 Mil

#28 Shane Wahl

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 11:11 PM

And the Casilla defense continues . . .

#29 jokin

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 11:13 PM

And the Casilla defense continues . . .


Shane, please attack with numbers. I am definitely not a fan nor defending him. The Tigers did us a favor taking Delmon, this looks like a possible win-win scenario.

#30 Rosterman

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 11:17 PM

What about THAT Japanese guy.