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Article: What Would a Francisco Liriano Trade Look Like?

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#1 Parker Hageman

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:54 PM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...Trade-Look-Like

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." -- Jim Bouton, "Ball Four"


#2 glunn

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:37 PM

Great article. But do you think that the Twins should give up on the only pitcher on the 40 man roster who seems to have a real chance of being an ace next year? I am hoping that they sign him to a multi-year incentive laden deal.

#3 clutterheart

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 04:18 AM

If they trade Liriano, the FO not only gives up on '12 but also '13 There is no way to field a professional pitching staff next year without Liriano. - this is the sorry state of the Rotation. So if he goes, might as well try to trade Willingham, Span, and both of the M&M brothers

#4 Blackjack

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 05:40 AM

So what kind of a contract will Liriano get in free agency this winter? What would it take for the Twins to sign him to a 2, 3, or 4 year contract?? He drives you crazy with his inconsistency but with his high upside, it could be worth the risk, at the right price. And they could always trade him next year at the trade deadline.... In 20013, if he has truly turned the corner and the Twins still suck, then they could truly get some gooooood prospects.

#5 kirbyelway

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 05:43 AM

Keep him and offer arbitration. If he continues to pitch this way he will turn it down and we will get a comp pick. That pick will probably have higher upside then what we get for him.

#6 twinswon1991

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 05:50 AM

There is zero chance Frankie signs with the Twins long term. What can the Twins offer: a losing team, terrible pitching coach and a medical staff that causes more injuries than they prevent. Frankie must be traded but sadly the game has passed Terry Ryan by and he will sit around and lose him with zero compensatio.

#7 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 05:51 AM

There is no good answer to this one. If we try to trade him, we probably wouldn't get anything decent in return, for the reasons mentioned in the article. That begs the question, What's the point? I have no interest in trading for spare parts in the hope a miracle happens and one actually develops into a major leaguer. On the other hand, if we try to sign him to an extension, I just can't see him keeping up this pace. Sooner or later Bad Frankie will return. And unless we offer $12.5M (which would be ludicrous) we won't get a comp pick if he becomes a free agent.

#8 DPJ

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 06:31 AM

There's zero chance that Liriano signs with the Twins unless they overpay for him and that's not a road I'd like to see the Twins go down. As for arb you have to make a qualifiing offer to any potential free agents so 1) is Liriano even ranked in the Elias rankings as an A or B?

#9 Cody Christie

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:27 AM

Anyone else have the feeling that Liriano will succeed for another organization but if he stays with the Twins, it will be more of the same old Liriano?

#10 TheLeviathan

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:36 AM

Anyone else have the feeling that Liriano will succeed for another organization but if he stays with the Twins, it will be more of the same old Liriano?


I find it much more likely that he puts together one good stretch, or even entire season, and people around here start throwing themselves off bridges in despair. Only to see the real Frankie show back up with his 6 ERA and inability to hit the plate.

At which point, of course, another team will tell him exactly the same thing we did (Throw it over the god-damn plate!) only they won't call it "pitch to contact" and we'll label them a genius if he pulls his head out of his butt again.

A trade of Liriano looks like this - beautiful. Get rid of him before you do something dumb like overpay him to stay.

#11 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:39 AM

I find it much more likely that he puts together one good stretch, or even entire season, and people around here start throwing themselves off bridges in despair. Only to see the real Frankie show back up with his 6 ERA and inability to hit the plate.


Agreed. Parker brought up Edwin Jackson. I think that's a great comp for Liriano.

#12 DPJ

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:41 AM

Anyone else have the feeling that Liriano will succeed for another organization but if he stays with the Twins, it will be more of the same old Liriano?



When an organizations entire pitching philosophy is throw the ball over the plate and hopefully down in the zone it wouldn't shock me to see Liriano go kill it elsewhere.

Hell I'd love to see a real pitching coach get his hands on Liriano and clean up his mechanics.

#13 TheLeviathan

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:44 AM

Yeah, I liked that comp to Jackson. Liriano has the ability to be electric but the inability to be even consistently decent. He's either pretty good for awhile or he's one of the worst in baseball for awhile. Not much middle ground. I really hope other teams are swayed by this stretch against the league's worst offenses. I'm not sure anyone can fix his mechanics DPJ. That seems to be predicated on focus and work-ethic. And, well, this is Frankie we're talking about.

#14 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:47 AM

Yeah, I liked that comp to Jackson. Liriano has the ability to be electric but the inability to be even consistently decent. He's either pretty good for awhile or he's one of the worst in baseball for awhile. Not much middle ground. I really hope other teams are swayed by this stretch against the league's worst offenses.

I'm not sure anyone can fix his mechanics DPJ. That seems to be predicated on focus and work-ethic. And, well, this is Frankie we're talking about.


I don't think this is about Liriano facing cakewalk lineups. He's a different pitcher. He's throwing his slider more often and his mechanics seem to be different.

But that's not the point. The point is that Liriano can never seem to hold on to the success he's having... Something goes wrong and he unfolds. Is it his head? Muscle memory? Coaching? I have no idea but it's there and it's real.

#15 roger

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:48 AM

Good analysis Parker, thanks!

#16 BigVin

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:51 AM

Trade Liriano! The Twins are rebuilding for the next year or 2, so why pay an average pitcher 12.5 Million for a .500 ball club or less. I realize the upside to Liriano, hence his last 3 starts, but look at his first 6-8 starts this year. My vote is to trade, and try to get a pitching or middle infield prospect. He will not sign with the Twins at years end.

#17 peterb18

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 08:01 AM

I think they should keep him. If they re-sign Liriano, sign Baker(who has a real live arm when healthy), hope that Gibson is ready, and then sign Grienke as your fourth starter. That would be 4 strong arms with good stuff. Then have Diamond as your other starter--that is a pretty good staff. A lot of big ifs! Also, I think most fans want a competitive team next year. Not a repeat of the last two seasons.

#18 peterb18

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 08:06 AM

I think they should keep him. If they re-sign Liriano, sign Baker(who has a real live arm when healthy), hope that Gibsouran is ready, and then sign Grienke as your fourth starter. That would be 4 strong arms with good stuff. Then have Diamond as your other starter--that is a pretty good staff. A lot of big ifs! Also, I think most fans want a competitive team next year. Not a repeat of the last two seasons.


I must add that I don't think he will want to come back to the Twins. Probably wants to get away from Anderson and the pitch to contact philosophy. A pitcher like him just needs to bust the ball in there and let the natural movement take place. He is at his best when he doesn't think too much and become overwhelmed. He is more of a natural.

#19 TheLeviathan

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 08:22 AM

I must add that I don't think he will want to come back to the Twins. Probably wants to get away from Anderson and the pitch to contact philosophy. A pitcher like him just needs to bust the ball in there and let the natural movement take place. He is at his best when he doesn't think too much and become overwhelmed. He is more of a natural.


"Pitch to contact" = "Throw strikes" = "Bust the ball in the zone". That's all it is. You can argue he needs to hear a different term for it, but they are all the same.

Twins have gotten WAY too much flack for that advice to Liriano from day 1.

#20 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 08:32 AM

Is Liriano the most frustrating player in not only the history of this franchise, but in all of baseball as well? I have no idea what I want them to do with Frankie as I am sure he will turn to crappy Liriano again if they sign him to a 2 year deal, but I could very well see him turning into CY Young Liriano if he signs elsewhere...like St. Louis..grrr....