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Article: Twins looking toward international market

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#1 Cody Christie

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:16 AM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...national-market

#2 gunnarthor

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:56 AM

How old is Torrens?

#3 ashburyjohn

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:12 AM

Am I correct in thinking that both these players are just over 16 years old? While it's exciting to get a talent like Sano, it's also something of a commitment to making a potentially difficult decision a few years down the road if the player turns out to have a somewhat lower ceiling. I forget how many years these younger players can remain off the 40-man roster, but at an age of something like 21 or 22 you can be in the position of deciding whether a player, who is younger than some of the college guys you are about to draft, will ever make it or not. Too many of these and your 40-man can become a little clogged with players who are not close to making a contribution to the major league club, and this can limit your maneuverability for trades or for callups. Or, the alternative becomes that you invest 5 years or so into a youngster and then wind up cutting him anyway, only to see him develop eventually into someone's fourth outfielder or useful relief pitcher, or even better.

Edited by ashburyjohn, 14 June 2012 - 10:20 AM.


#4 Steve Penz

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:25 AM

I don't understand how this stuff works. Outside of the US and PR, is it a free for all? If that is the case, with teams like the Yankees in this world, how do the Twins have a chance at these players? I love how the video for Torrens calls him "El Chamo de Oro." The kid of gold.

#5 righty8383

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:30 AM

Torrens turned 16 a little over a month ago.

#6 ashburyjohn

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:36 AM

I love how the video for Torrens calls him "El Chamo de Oro." The kid of gold.


Golden Boy?

#7 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:42 AM

[TABLE="width: 207"] [TR] [TD]3B[/TD] [TD]Torrens, Luis[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]5/2/95[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]SS[/TD] [TD]Minier, Amaurys[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]1/30/96[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]

#8 CK

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:43 AM

I took it as a literal translation. SIGN ALL OF THEM

#9 Seth Stohs

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:52 AM

I don't understand how this stuff works. Outside of the US and PR, is it a free for all? If that is the case, with teams like the Yankees in this world, how do the Twins have a chance at these players?


Players that turned 16 years old before July 1, can be signed after July 1. (yes, from countries that are not US, Canada and PR) With the new CBA, all teams will have the same maximum that they can spend internationally.

#10 Twins Fan From Afar

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:58 AM

The international stuff really seems to be coming into its own as a crucial part of scouting. So here's a question -- maybe it's been asked before and maybe not: If Miguel Sano had been Rule 4 draft-eligible in 2012, or 2011 (let's just say he was from Chicago, for instance), what kind of round selection would he have been? Tough to say, I imagine, but I'm just curious what some of you more "in the know" than I am would guess.
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#11 nicksaviking

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:23 PM

I don't understand how this stuff works. Outside of the US and PR, is it a free for all? If that is the case, with teams like the Yankees in this world, how do the Twins have a chance at these players?

I love how the video for Torrens calls him "El Chamo de Oro." The kid of gold.


Teams can only spend $2.9M on their international signings. Money shouldn't be a factor for any team any more when it comes to signing international players. If there is potential superstar, it should now come down to whether a club thinks the player is special enough that they are willing to spend their entire budget on one guy. Even before this budget though, a $10k bonus would get most international players. Only a handfull of the very high profile kids were getting seven figures.

This does exclude the Asian markets, or Japan at the very least. Those guys can still come over here and demand big money.

#12 Steve Penz

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:42 PM

Seth and Nick, thank you for the explanation. Thank god there is a financially even playing field somewhere.

#13 Jeff P

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 01:12 PM

A couple of other interesting points that I have seen: 1) Next year and going forward, the international cap will be adjusted for winning percentage the previous season. The article I saw said that the worst teams will be allowed to spend ~$5M while the best teams get to spend ~$1.8M. 2) Starting in 2013-2014, teams will be able to trade their international spending cap space, but only an additional 50% of their cap. Jeff

#14 Einstein

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:38 PM

Ok, someone educate me. How does Jorge Soler get $30M over 9 years from the Cubs if there's a cap set at $2.9M for international players?

#15 Schafer9728

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:15 PM

Ok, someone educate me. How does Jorge Soler get $30M over 9 years from the Cubs if there's a cap set at $2.9M for international players?


I believe its because he was eligible to sign before July 1st and did sign before July 1st, meaning he falls under the old rules.

#16 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:55 AM

BA has a new article (subscription required) that profiles Venezuela, where the Twins have had recent success with both Wilson Ramos and Oswaldo Arcia. The article, however, links specifically the Twins to Dominican shortstop Amaurys Minier.

Stopping short of calling the Twins "favorites", it says they're showing "heavy interest". In a Sano-esque way, whoever gets Minier is getting him for his bat (he's a switch-hitter, but better from his left side), who will move "quickly" to third base, but may end up at first or in an outfield corner. Sound familiar?

Minier's bonus - if the Twins are to sign him - will probably require between half to two-thirds of the cap. My take: the Twins still regret letting Miguel Cabrera slip out of their grasp and will pay to get Minier.

#17 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:58 AM

So here's a question -- maybe it's been asked before and maybe not: If Miguel Sano had been Rule 4 draft-eligible in 2012, or 2011 (let's just say he was from Chicago, for instance), what kind of round selection would he have been? Tough to say, I imagine, but I'm just curious what some of you more "in the know" than I am would guess.


Sano easily would have been a first-rounder, probably top ten. There was huge buzz surrounding him and it was quite a surprise to see the Twins come out on top.

#18 gunnarthor

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 11:06 AM

Sano easily would have been a first-rounder, probably top ten. There was huge buzz surrounding him and it was quite a surprise to see the Twins come out on top.


Yeah, BA had a question about that when he was signed (and keep in mind he was 16 so wouldn't have been draft eligible in the states) and had him going somewhere (IIRC) in the top 15.

#19 PMKI

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 12:47 PM

According to MLBtraderumors.com the Twins are showing heavy interest in Dominican shortstop Amaurys Minier.


#20 Vervehound

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:47 PM

The international stuff really seems to be coming into its own as a crucial part of scouting.

So here's a question -- maybe it's been asked before and maybe not: If Miguel Sano had been Rule 4 draft-eligible in 2012, or 2011 (let's just say he was from Chicago, for instance), what kind of round selection would he have been? Tough to say, I imagine, but I'm just curious what some of you more "in the know" than I am would guess.


someone asked jim callis this very same question in a b.a. chat last year and he speculated late first round. keep in mind that the kid was 16 when he signed so that increases the risk by a significant margin and lowers his worth. b.a. tries, for the most part, to not rank prospects until they at least hit the rookie leagues because you really have no idea what you have until then.

#21 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 04:05 PM

someone asked jim callis this very same question in a b.a. chat last year and he speculated late first round. keep in mind that the kid was 16 when he signed so that increases the risk by a significant margin and lowers his worth. b.a. tries, for the most part, to not rank prospects until they at least hit the rookie leagues because you really have no idea what you have until then.


Verve! Welcome aboard!

Uh, where's your signature avatar I gave you a few years back?

#22 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 04:23 PM

I don't understand how this stuff works. Outside of the US and PR, is it a free for all? If that is the case, with teams like the Yankees in this world, how do the Twins have a chance at these players?

I love how the video for Torrens calls him "El Chamo de Oro." The kid of gold.


To supplement the previous replies, the long-term hope of MLB is take make the rule 4 draft (amateurs) global, but that has to be negotiated in the terms of the CBA. My guess is the whole thing with a limited signing pool is a transition to that , and it will be taken up when the next CBA is negotiated, before the 2017 season.