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#41 biggentleben

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 01:08 PM

Heyward had a 5.6 WAR season last year and was still a dissapointment at the plate....2.8 WAR offense and defense.He is about to be paid pretty well and I think it would be silly to move multiple key pitching prospects for him.

 

Frankly, I don't really see the need for Atlanta to trade the guy at all.

 

I don't see why they would at all, which is why he'll require a huge return in order to get him out of a Braves uniform.

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#42 Mike Sixel

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 01:12 PM

I don't see why they would at all, which is why he'll require a huge return in order to get him out of a Braves uniform.

 

Agreed, I wouldn't trade him....no way.

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It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#43 DK

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 01:20 PM

How about Nolasco to the Dodgers for Either? I would even eat part of Nolasco's contract. 

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#44 twinsfan34

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 01:24 PM

With the same team that was one of the most productive teams in the NL last year.  The hitters just need to produce.  The Braves are really not looking for more hitting this offseason.

 

Peraza also is a 2B and has played there for a full season now.  The system has a ton of middle infield depth.  Ozhaino Albies has been referred to as the positional Julio Urias, who jumped from playing at a level above what his age suggested to one of the best prospects in baseball this year.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "productive"...(?) W-L wasn't bad 79-83, but they were still 17 G behind the Nationals, who had the only winning record in the Division.

 

They were 2nd to last in runs scored (573), only the Padres (535) were a worse team when it came to putting runs on the board.

 

Great pitching though.

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#45 tobi0040

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 01:30 PM

How about Nolasco to the Dodgers for Either? I would even eat part of Nolasco's contract. 

 

I don't think Nolasco for Ethier is a fit.The guy is owed $16M a year for three more years and has a vesting option for another year.he will be 33 next year.Last year he had a .9 oWAR and -.8dWAR.Not the type of OF help we need.

 

And this is a deal that makes us even thinner in the rotation and we have to go out and pay free agent dollars just to get back to square one.I think for better or worse, Ricky is here and about the best thing that can happen is he gets back to the guy he was before last year.That would help us more than Ethier IMO.

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#46 nicksaviking

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 02:03 PM

I got the impression Heyward's extension talks fizzled at about the time the Braves extended Freddie Freeman while at the same time it was being reported they weren't offering Heyward a deal in the same ballpark.

 

The Twins may be able to sign him long term, but one shoud probably assume it would take an offer similar to Freeman's, which was 8 years $135 million.How comfortable are people with that considering they'd also have to give up top end prospects?

Edited by nicksaviking, 04 November 2014 - 02:03 PM.

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#47 tobi0040

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 02:14 PM

I got the impression Heyward's extension talks fizzled at about the time the Braves extended Freddie Freeman while at the same time it was being reported they weren't offering Heyward a deal in the same ballpark.

 

The Twins may be able to sign him long term, but one shoud probably assume it would take an offer similar to Freeman's, which was 8 years $135 million.How comfortable are people with that considering they'd also have to give up top end prospects?

 

On a scale of 1 to 10, about 0. 

 

I think signing John Lester for $135M makes more sense than a corner OF, and I wiill keep Sano, Meyer, and Buxton.

 

I think we need to keep sight of the actual problems. Starting pitching and outfield defense.OF defense seems like it could be fixed for a heckuva lot less than that.

Edited by tobi0040, 04 November 2014 - 02:32 PM.

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#48 big dog

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 02:21 PM

Heyward may be traded, but it would be for a top 5-10 prospect in all of baseball just to get the conversation started.  If a Braves outfielder is moved for something akin to the OP package, it'd be BJ Upton.  That grouping likely won't get you in the door for Heyward or Justin Upton, both of whom the team would listen on for the right trade package, but I have a feeling that package would include a Buxton/Sano to start the discussions.  May not take one of those guys to get the deal done if the deal was something like Meyer AND Berrios and some other pieces for Heyward, but basically think of Heyward as the Braves' Hershel Walker, expecting a conversation to be akin to that sort of organizational changing package of players.

You're from out of town, right?Otherwise you'd know better than to bring up Herschel Walker.

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#49 TheLeviathan

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:04 PM

WAR is a terrible stat to use with Heyward because he's a poster child for what's wrong with the stat.

 

As for what Heyward can produce - the guy has been steadily declining in his production and is nowhere near the type of hitter he was expected to be.  Arcia has been pretty good despite having some monumental hills to climb in his approach.

 

I love Heyward's defense, but the guy is going to get way overpaid on the basis of good corner OF d and an overrated bat.  No thanks.

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#50 tobi0040

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:08 PM

WAR is a terrible stat to use with Heyward because he's a poster child for what's wrong with the stat.

 

As for what Heyward can produce - the guy has been steadily declining in his production and is nowhere near the type of hitter he was expected to be.  Arcia has been pretty good despite having some monumental hills to climb in his approach.

 

I love Heyward's defense, but the guy is going to get way overpaid on the basis of good corner OF d and an overrated bat.  No thanks.

 

I think WAR is a data point that can help put some things in perspective, especially for a player you almost never see play.

 

At the end of the day he is not what we need to be spending $100+ million on and we likely won't be spending it on anyone anways.

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#51 SarasotaBill

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:13 PM

Alex Rios as a platoon with Scheaffer in LF.

 

Rios 2014 vs LHP - Avg=.325 OBP=.353 SLG=.545 OPS=.898

 

ESPN's Law predicted 2 mil for Rios. I would go to 4mil to platoon and be a late inning defensive replacement for Arcia.

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#52 biggentleben

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:33 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by "productive"...(?) W-L wasn't bad 79-83, but they were still 17 G behind the Nationals, who had the only winning record in the Division.

 

They were 2nd to last in runs scored (573), only the Padres (535) were a worse team when it came to putting runs on the board.

 

Great pitching though.

 

In 2013, they had one of the most productive offenses in the league.  That's the point.

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#53 biggentleben

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:34 PM

You're from out of town, right?Otherwise you'd know better than to bring up Herschel Walker.

 

Nope.  That was intentional.

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#54 biggentleben

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:46 PM

I got the impression Heyward's extension talks fizzled at about the time the Braves extended Freddie Freeman while at the same time it was being reported they weren't offering Heyward a deal in the same ballpark.

 

The Twins may be able to sign him long term, but one shoud probably assume it would take an offer similar to Freeman's, which was 8 years $135 million.How comfortable are people with that considering they'd also have to give up top end prospects?

 

Not close to the real story from Heyward or the Braves.  He had major issues with Wren and refused to negotiate with Wren, so there was never a deal on the table long-term.  Most close to the situation were surprised he'd even do two years.  He's already talking about meeting with Hart to get something done long-term.

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#55 twinsfan34

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:54 PM

WAR is a terrible stat to use with Heyward because he's a poster child for what's wrong with the stat.

 

As for what Heyward can produce - the guy has been steadily declining in his production and is nowhere near the type of hitter he was expected to be.  Arcia has been pretty good despite having some monumental hills to climb in his approach.

 

I love Heyward's defense, but the guy is going to get way overpaid on the basis of good corner OF d and an overrated bat.  No thanks.

 

If you go the FA route, generally, you're going to overpay. If you trade a player away for prospects, you'll generally get ahead, not immediately, but generally you get ahead in the game. But you have to do it when the iron is hot. Tampa Bay waited too long and didn't get much of a return for Price by comparison to previous trades of James Shields and Jeff Samardjia.

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#56 DJL44

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:55 PM

If Alex Rios is in the bargain bin I wouldn't mind giving him a try. Better than Torii Hunter.

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#57 TheLeviathan

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 06:06 PM

If you go the FA route, generally, you're going to overpay. If you trade a player away for prospects, you'll generally get ahead, not immediately, but generally you get ahead in the game. But you have to do it when the iron is hot. Tampa Bay waited too long and didn't get much of a return for Price by comparison to previous trades of James Shields and Jeff Samardjia.

 

I agree, but this is not the time to buy on Heyward.  Especially not since there is still such a strong contingent that overrates his contributions.


#58 big dog

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 06:29 PM

Nope. That was intentional.


Nope. That was intentional.

Hey admins isn't there a ban for this kind antisocial behavior????

:)

Edited by big dog, 04 November 2014 - 06:29 PM.

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#59 kab21

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 07:02 PM

How about Nolasco to the Dodgers for Either? I would even eat part of Nolasco's contract. 

 

It should be the other way around since Ethier makes more money/season.I could handle this but Ethier isn't very interesting as a player anymore.So-so (and declining) power with poor defense.I prefer CC on Dodgers if we go that route.He's actually fairly good offensively and defensively.

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Is 2016 2017 2018 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

Offseason (noun) - a time to propose trades assuming opposing GM's can't do the same basic analysis


#60 stringer bell

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 05:45 AM

Rios has only played a few innings in left, but he would be the veteran I would target. I don't know what happened to his power last year, but for under $5M, I'd take a flyer on him.
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