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#21 biggentleben

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 09:42 PM

I really hope you are joking. Even assuming you got Heyward to agree to a contract extension before the trade (not sure how that works), do the Twins really want to trade Meyer's or Berrios's three pre-arbitration years plus three arbitration years for another huge contract for five-six years? And while we do need outfield defense, we need starting pitching even more, especially after next year when outfield defense (Buxton, Rosario, maybe Kepler or Walker) is scheduled to arrive. And if Heyward can't agree to an extension, then this would be the stupidest trade ever. We are not even competing in 2015.

 

I'm not joking.  To get Atlanta to move on Heyward would require that cost.  I'm not saying it would be wise for any team.  If any team comes to Atlanta on Heyward, they're going to pay a king's ransom to move him because the team is wise enough to know that's the only way their fanbase would accept such a move.

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#22 nytwinsfan

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 09:47 PM

I'm not joking.  To get Atlanta to move on Heyward would require that cost.  I'm not saying it would be wise for any team.  If any team comes to Atlanta on Heyward, they're going to pay a king's ransom to move him because the team is wise enough to know that's the only way their fanbase would accept such a move.

 

I'm not doubting that it might take that much to get Atlanta to do the deal, I'm just saying it would be dumb for Minnesota to do it. Even for Meyer alone, unless we could guarantee an extension with Heyward, it would be tremendously stupid and wasteful. Even if we could guarantee an extension, I'd be against it.

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#23 biggentleben

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 09:53 PM

I'm not doubting that it might take that much to get Atlanta to do the deal, I'm just saying it would be dumb for Minnesota to do it. Even for Meyer alone, unless we could guarantee an extension with Heyward, it would be tremendously stupid and wasteful. Even if we could guarantee an extension, I'd be against it.

 

No way Meyer alone even gets you to the table, so if the Twins were to get into trade talks with the Braves on Heyward, it's fair to say you'd be quite upset at the cost.

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#24 Riverbrian

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 10:41 PM

I can't imagine the Braves walking away from Heyward. That young player will get it together. He's still young and figuring it all out.

Especially with Upton issues in the OF. I can't imagine Hart moving him... No matter what is offered.

You couldn't even say Heyward to Hart without him saying Upton back to you.

Ryan: I like that Heyward Kid... How Much?

Hart: B.J.... He's got speed... Power... He'd be a nice fit in Minnesota. I could make that happen... B.J. Upton in a Twins uniform.

Ryan: Can't do it with Upton... Let's get back to Heyward.

Hart: I watched B.J. Hit a ball 475 feet to dead center... Drop the bat and sprint full speed and he caught the ball he hit. He's amazing!!!

Ryan: My guys are telling me Heyward is what we need in our OF.

Hart: Your Guys?

Ryan: Twins Daily

Hart: B.J. Ran into a burning orphanage and pulled out 20 young children to safety just last night... He's feeding the poor. Positive P.R... I'm telling you... I would only make this deal with someone I respected... Like you... Ummm... Terry.
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#25 old nurse

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 06:35 AM

Trading season is when fans dream up these lovely one sided trades. some combination of the bottom 15 of the 40 man roster and any C prospects in the system for a very good player.Who will this winter's Duensing and Swarzak?

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#26 kab21

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 06:30 PM

Heyward may be traded, but it would be for a top 5-10 prospect in all of baseball just to get the conversation started.  If a Braves outfielder is moved for something akin to the OP package, it'd be BJ Upton.  That grouping likely won't get you in the door for Heyward or Justin Upton, both of whom the team would listen on for the right trade package, but I have a feeling that package would include a Buxton/Sano to start the discussions.  May not take one of those guys to get the deal done if the deal was something like Meyer AND Berrios and some other pieces for Heyward, but basically think of Heyward as the Braves' Hershel Walker, expecting a conversation to be akin to that sort of organizational changing package of players.

 

Heyward won't be traded if the price is a top 5-10 prospect.Heyward is nothing like Herschel Walker.He's also in the final year of his contract and has been a disappointment offensively.He makes for an interesting potential FA in 2015.A 26 yr old with upside.

 

BJ couldn't be given away much less bring in guys like Plouffe and Thorpe. 

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#27 kab21

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 06:37 PM

I still think the Dodgers/Twins could match up on Crawford for Nolasco.The Dodgers free up an OF spot and save money while the Twins get a good LF'er for 8M/season (if you consider Nolasco a sunk cost).Kemp is obviously better with higher upside but I'm not seeing the Twins picking up 5 years of contract for a broken player.I also don't see the Twins going after Crawford and his 3 years but that's more palatable.I'm also not sure the Dodgers want to move Kemp.CC and Ethier are the guys they want to move even if Kemp's name is out there.

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Is 2016 2017 2018 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

Offseason (noun) - a time to propose trades assuming opposing GM's can't do the same basic analysis


#28 Trevor0333

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 08:57 PM

I haven't fallen off the Eddie Rosario bandwagon.
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#29 ScottyB

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 02:19 AM

Never, never, never, never, never trade young, potentially high end starters for outfielders.It is much easier to train an outfielder than to come up with God-given pitching talent.If Berrios or Meyer were 5 or 6 years from the majors and the Twins were one player away from a world championship, then maybe.That's not the case here.Think Garza for Young.Not the right direction. 

 

As far as OF'ers go, the potential is there.Arcia hit 20 homers this year, Hicks showed improvement at the end of the year and might be able to be turned around, Rosario and Kepler are hitting in the AFL, Santana will be fine in CF or at SS, and if Buxton can stay healthy, he'll be great.Molitor needs to put together a coaching staff who can improve these guys.Early in his career, Molitor was injured a lot. Put him in a room with Buxton to explain that while it's nice to go full blast on defense, if it keeps putting you in the hospital, you're not helping the team.With his speed, going 3/4 time will save injuries and keep him on the field.

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#30 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 07:40 AM

I'd love to snag Heyward and extend him immediately. 

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#31 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 07:40 AM

Seems like a super Arcia (better/more proven stick and better defense)

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#32 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 07:41 AM

Can't we do like a Doumit/Correia for him? ;)

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#33 TheLeviathan

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 07:53 AM

Seems like a super Arcia (better/more proven stick and better defense)

 

I would quite confidently wager that Arcia is going to be a much more impactful hitter than Heyward.  The defense is an obvious, lopsided matter in favor of Heyward however.

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#34 biggentleben

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 10:56 AM

I would quite confidently wager that Arcia is going to be a much more impactful hitter than Heyward.  The defense is an obvious, lopsided matter in favor of Heyward however.

 

I'd take that wager.  I think the bias has run the other direction when that gets to be the conversation.

 

Say what you want about Heyward's overall production and about they psychology behind the game, but Heyward is very obviously a hitter who does best when put in a batting order position and left there. He's also done what's asked of him in different positions in the batting order, including most of last season when he was asked to level his swing as the leadoff hitter in the order.  Last year was only the second season he's been given even 400 PA in the same batting order position in a season, and the other was his rookie 2010 season.  He's asked to move to the middle of the lineup, and I think if Justin Upton stays in town, a 3-4-5 of Freeman, Upton, and Heyward could be quite impressive in 2015.  Those who watch Heyward can tell you it's there when he's allowed to go at the at-bat in his own way, but he's been so messed with up to this point.

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#35 Linus

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 11:36 AM

Never, never, never, never, never trade young, potentially high end starters for outfielders.It is much easier to train an outfielder than to come up with God-given pitching talent.If Berrios or Meyer were 5 or 6 years from the majors and the Twins were one player away from a world championship, then maybe.That's not the case here.Think Garza for Young.Not the right direction. 

 

As far as OF'ers go, the potential is there.Arcia hit 20 homers this year, Hicks showed improvement at the end of the year and might be able to be turned around, Rosario and Kepler are hitting in the AFL, Santana will be fine in CF or at SS, and if Buxton can stay healthy, he'll be great.Molitor needs to put together a coaching staff who can improve these guys.Early in his career, Molitor was injured a lot. Put him in a room with Buxton to explain that while it's nice to go full blast on defense, if it keeps putting you in the hospital, you're not helping the team.With his speed, going 3/4 time will save injuries and keep him on the field.

This, a thousand times.Starting pitching, especially good starting pitching is the best currency there is and the most fundamental factor in the short and long term success of any franchise.Trade it at your peril.....which is why I was adamantly apposed to the Delmon Young trade, even straight up much less throwing in Bartlett for nothing.Few corner outfielders are worth a good, young pitcher.

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#36 Mike Sixel

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 11:46 AM

Is Meyer good? He couldn't even scratch out one appearance on the worst SP staff in baseball, not even after rosters expanded. If he's so good, why didn't that happen at all?

 

I'd not deal him right now for Hayward, but that's because I think he is good, but you wonder what the Twins are thinking about him at this point. It's not like he's 22 years old either.

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#37 Linus

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 12:01 PM

Is Meyer good? He couldn't even scratch out one appearance on the worst SP staff in baseball, not even after rosters expanded. If he's so good, why didn't that happen at all?

 

I'd not deal him right now for Hayward, but that's because I think he is good, but you wonder what the Twins are thinking about him at this point. It's not like he's 22 years old either.

He was hurt after the rosters expanded.Prior to that, well, that debate has been waged here extensively.I think he will be in our rotation next year, maybe even out of spring training - I like him a lot and think is a big piece of the puzzle.

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#38 twinsfan34

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 12:29 PM

Braves need hitters, they can't hit the broad side of a barn. They also need plate discipline. They have a solid SS prospect in Peraza, but he doesn't have much plate discipline (Altuve-esque approach).

 

26th in Batting Avg

4th in batter strikeouts

27th in OPS+ (1 pct off dead last)

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#39 biggentleben

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 12:48 PM

Braves need hitters, they can't hit the broad side of a barn. They also need plate discipline. They have a solid SS prospect in Peraza, but he doesn't have much plate discipline (Altuve-esque approach).

 

26th in Batting Avg

4th in batter strikeouts

27th in OPS+ (1 pct off dead last)

 

With the same team that was one of the most productive teams in the NL last year.  The hitters just need to produce.  The Braves are really not looking for more hitting this offseason.

 

Peraza also is a 2B and has played there for a full season now.  The system has a ton of middle infield depth.  Ozhaino Albies has been referred to as the positional Julio Urias, who jumped from playing at a level above what his age suggested to one of the best prospects in baseball this year.

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#40 tobi0040

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 01:03 PM

Meyer only, not a chance.  Meyer AND Berrios might get you into discussions.

 

And if the Twins didn't make the move of Heyward for Meyer, they're idiots, frankly.

 

Heyward had a 5.6 WAR season last year and was still a dissapointment at the plate....2.8 WAR offense and defense.He is about to be paid pretty well and I think it would be silly to move multiple key pitching prospects for him.

 

Frankly, I don't really see the need for Atlanta to trade the guy at all.

Edited by tobi0040, 04 November 2014 - 01:04 PM.

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