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2014-2015 MLB Offseason Moves Thread

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#21 Mike Sixel

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 01:22 PM

Every team pays for decline phase, or doesn't every have a player over 32 or so on their roster. It is the market all MLB plays in. 

 

Or, they'll just eat the money, or they revenue will keep climbing, or they'll trade them off, or, the decline won't be awful. Fans tend to over estimate how "crippling" contracts are (and I am not alone in that opinion, the fangaphs guys post that all the time).

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#22 USAFChief

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 06:24 PM

I get what you're saying Chief and I agree that even if you handed the Twins a 360M pot of revenue you still wouldn't see it spent like this...but all that said, that's a huge advantage to have.  One the Twins would be out of their minds to try and match at 60% of the revenue the Red Sox make.

 

It's why I'm so irked by the way baseball handles revenues and the wild imbalances it can cause.

 I think it's more than just the money...

 

One team looks at the situation and tries to figure out how to get better, immediately.  One team wants to "build this thing the right way."  

 

One team looks for answers.  One looks for excuses.  One looks to find ways to get it done, one seems to look for reasons it can't.

 

One team isn't afraid to make big moves, which might mean big mistakes.  One team seems to look first at the downside of any potential move.
 

One team tries to make the payroll fit the players it needs.  One tries to make the players fit the payroll it wants.

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#23 jokin

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 07:40 PM

 I think it's more than just the money...

 

One team looks at the situation and tries to figure out how to get better, immediately.  One team wants to "build this thing the right way."  

 

One team looks for answers.  One looks for excuses.  One looks to find ways to get it done, one seems to look for reasons it can't.

 

One team isn't afraid to make big moves, which might mean big mistakes.  One team seems to look first at the downside of any potential move.
 

One team tries to make the payroll fit the players it needs.  One tries to make the players fit the payroll it wants.

 

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#24 TheLeviathan

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 09:24 PM

 I think it's more than just the money...

 

One team looks at the situation and tries to figure out how to get better, immediately.  One team wants to "build this thing the right way."  

 

I don't disagree with you about the mindset, I really don't and my posts in the past more than back that up.  On the other hand, I'm not blind to the realities of baseball finances.  The truth is that while I want the Twins to have a more aggressive mindset, I'm not so delusional as to think they can hang with some teams.  The media revenues are just ridiculously out of balance.

 

It's why I wish all sports had a salary floor and a salary cap with more shared revenues.

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#25 USAFChief

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 09:39 PM

I don't disagree with you about the mindset, I really don't and my posts in the past more than back that up.  On the other hand, I'm not blind to the realities of baseball finances.  The truth is that while I want the Twins to have a more aggressive mindset, I'm not so delusional as to think they can hang with some teams.  The media revenues are just ridiculously out of balance.
 
It's why I wish all sports had a salary floor and a salary cap with more shared revenues.


They are at a significant disadvantage no doubt.

Heck, for the record, I don't even like the Sandoval signing. What I do like is the "lets address issues" mindset.
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#26 jokin

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 09:42 PM

I don't disagree with you about the mindset, I really don't and my posts in the past more than back that up.  On the other hand, I'm not blind to the realities of baseball finances.  The truth is that while I want the Twins to have a more aggressive mindset, I'm not so delusional as to think they can hang with some teams.  The media revenues are just ridiculously out of balance.

 

It's why I wish all sports had a salary floor and a salary cap with more shared revenues.

 

Even without a cap, many small and mid-market teams have adapted, thrived, and not only hung with their big market competitors, but ran circles around them at times (they've been either "aggressive", just plain smart and disciplined, or all of the above), while many teams with the unlimited budgets we've seen fail more than they succeed.

 

Joyous, fact-based and tireless Twins fan for 40+ years, who unfortunately has been characterized as-

 

"forcing Twins fans to endure more bitter, baseless, and tiresome cheap shots about the Twins FO."


#27 TheLeviathan

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 09:55 PM

Even without a cap, many small and mid-market teams have adapted, thrived, and not only hung with their big market competitors, but ran circles around them at times (they've been either "aggressive", just plain smart and disciplined, or all of the above), while many teams with the unlimited budgets we've seen fail more than they succeed.

 

And none of that has anything to do with this conversation.  We're talking within the context of a team spending 40M on two players this offseason.  I agree with Chief about the mindset of the Red Sox and others being something to envy.

 

The reality, on the other hand, is that the 40M per year they just spent on those players is only a quarter of the revenue difference between the two teams.  Meaning they could do this with 6 more players of this same value before just breaking even with where the Twins are.  That's a reality that is unfair to many teams regardless of their success and the truth is (as many here are prone to advocate) - spending does make a difference and there is a ridiculous spending advantage at play here.  That shouldn't stop the Twins from a more aggressive mindset, but it's certainly a limitation on it relative to a team like the Red Sox.

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#28 jokin

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 10:27 PM

And none of that has anything to do with this conversation.  We're talking within the context of a team spending 40M on two players this offseason.  I agree with Chief about the mindset of the Red Sox and others being something to envy.

 

The reality, on the other hand, is that the 40M per year they just spent on those players is only a quarter of the revenue difference between the two teams.  Meaning they could do this with 6 more players of this same value before just breaking even with where the Twins are.  That's a reality that is unfair to many teams regardless of their success and the truth is (as many here are prone to advocate) - spending does make a difference and there is a ridiculous spending advantage at play here.  That shouldn't stop the Twins from a more aggressive mindset, but it's certainly a limitation on it relative to a team like the Red Sox.

 

You say ridiculous, and I say how many titles does the new Dodger ownership have on their mantle? The Dodgers, new and old owners, last won the Series in '88. And if it wasn't for the Dodgers who bailed them out somewhat, the Red Sox would still be buried in the payroll hole of their own making.And the Phillies and Yankees are both a mess, the Tigers appear to soon be on the same type of bad contract precipice.The Angels have one title in their history, in 2002.The Rangers and Dodgers have both been on the brink of bankruptcy.

 

You say it's unfair, and I say life is also unfair.The Twins asked the public to make things less unfair, I wish they would match the commitment of the public to lessenng that unfairness by matching their own internal commitment to the same goal.

 

Joyous, fact-based and tireless Twins fan for 40+ years, who unfortunately has been characterized as-

 

"forcing Twins fans to endure more bitter, baseless, and tiresome cheap shots about the Twins FO."


#29 TheLeviathan

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 10:38 PM

You say ridiculous, and I say how many titles does the new Dodger ownership have on their mantle? 

 

I said a ridiculous spending advantage and that is pretty much indisputable.  How someone translates that spending into victories is irrelevant to this discussion and to my point.


#30 biggentleben

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 07:35 PM

Yasmani Tomas signs for 6 years, $68.5M with the Diamondbacks.  Way below the 7/$100M that he was expected to get by many pundits. Ben Badler was on the BA podcast really talking down Tomas and talking up a few other Cuban guys, specifically Yoan Moncada.

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#31 biggentleben

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 09:06 PM

Josh Donaldson traded from Oakland to Toronto for Brett Lawrie and three minor leaguers.

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#32 Kirby_waved_at_me

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 10:46 AM

Mariners may have just signed Nelson Cruz - 4 years, $58 Million or so.


#33 Mike Sixel

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 10:55 AM

Ya, really a two to three year deal in terms of any effectiveness probably.......but spreading out the money. 

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#34 TheLeviathan

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 11:06 AM

15M for Cruz seems like a bargain relative to some other moves being made.


#35 kab21

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 07:42 AM

15M for Cruz seems like a bargain relative to some other moves being made.

15M next season is fine.4 yrs of it is awful.

Is 2016 2017 2018 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

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#36 TheLeviathan

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 07:55 AM

15M next season is fine.4 yrs of it is awful.

 

Relative to giving Cuddyer 10M and giving up a first round pick?  Or "do nothing well" Billy Butler 30M?

 

At least Cruz does one thing well.


#37 biggentleben

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 11:13 PM

Braves sign Nick Markakis for too many years and too much money to do nothing of notable value. #HotBravesTwitterTake

 

JA Happ traded for Michael Saunders.

 

The combination of the two meaning Justin Upton to Seattle?

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#38 kab21

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 08:24 AM

Relative to giving Cuddyer 10M and giving up a first round pick?  Or "do nothing well" Billy Butler 30M?

 

At least Cruz does one thing well.

 

Honestly I think I would rather owe Cuddyer 21M or Butler 30M than Cruz 60M.

Is 2016 2017 2018 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

Offseason (noun) - a time to propose trades assuming opposing GM's can't do the same basic analysis


#39 Kirby_waved_at_me

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 08:37 AM

Braves sign Nick Markakis for too many years and too much money to do nothing of notable value. #HotBravesTwitterTake

 

JA Happ traded for Michael Saunders.

 

The combination of the two meaning Justin Upton to Seattle?

I bet Seattle would like that to be the case...


#40 Willihammer

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 09:26 AM

http://www.fangraphs...nt-predictions/

 

Fans are sticker shocked this winter, again. What a surprise.

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Well, there's that.

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