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Examples of successful trades for prospects

trades
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#1 ashburyjohn

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:38 PM

With all the discussion about possibly trading players away, where sometimes the opinion is "not unless we're blown away by an offer," I got to thinking about what kind of successful trade ought to be the benchmark now. Here are three, just off the top of my head:
  • Rangers trade Mark Teixeira for a nucleus
  • Braves trade Doyle Alexander for a future HOF starter
  • Twins trade A.J. Pierzynski for three pitchers who worked out to varying degrees
What other such trades would you nominate?

#2 daan4786

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:54 PM

Rockies trading Matt Holliday for CarGo and Huston Street. I thought it was a terrible trade until CarGo went off.

#3 Boom Boom

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:56 PM

Nationals trade Matt Capps for Wilson Ramos.

#4 CDog

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:20 PM

Viola for Tapani and Aggie (plus a couple) was a World Series kind of trade as it worked out. Knobby for Milton, Guzman, Buchanan and I think someone else seems to be thrown out there a lot. Those are the two I think of from the Twins perspective off the top of my head.

#5 ashburyjohn

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:07 PM

Good ones. Keep 'em coming.

#6 Coach J

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:14 PM

A recent one.. Dodgers trade Carlos Santana to Indians for Casey Blake at the trade deadline. Or my personal favorite.. Steve Phillips GM for the Mets at the time trades away Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano!

#7 J-Dog Dungan

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:15 PM

Nationals trade Matt Capps for Wilson Ramos.


Which side wins?

#8 gunnarthor

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:19 PM

It's too early to tell but the Pence, Gonzalez and Latos trades this past year+ are all good examples of the type of trades I'd like us to get.

#9 CwK

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:36 PM

Minnesota Timberwolves trade Kevin Garnett for Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, a 2009 first round draft pick (top three protected) and a return of Minnesota's conditional first round draft pick previously obtained in the Ricky Davis-Wally Szczerbiak trade. Minnesota also receives cash considerations in the deal. Dynasty.

#10 ashburyjohn

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:40 PM

Minnesota Timberwolves trade Kevin Garnett


I'll see your Kevin Garnett and raise you with the Herschel Walker deal.

(How many guys allow themselves to be accomplices to the thread-jacking of their own thread? :) )

Edited by ashburyjohn, 11 June 2012 - 04:27 PM.


#11 Mchans24

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 05:32 PM

We were all so excited when he lost that damn shoe!! Then the Cowboys won four super bowls!!

#12 Land Of 10,000 Beasts

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 05:40 PM

Nationals trade Matt Capps for Wilson Ramos.


That didn't take long :D

Seriously what was Bill Smith thinking? Oh well. I guess Cappsy hasn't been toooo bad.

#13 jtrinaldi

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 05:46 PM

From a perspective a Brewers fan.... We won the Greinke trade no doubt, Odorizzi may be a stud in the majors but he will not be able to match what Greinke has done. Jefress is an ok reliever,Lorenzo Cain isn't ****, and and Escobar is a servicable short stop without a bat. The Sabathia trade for Laporta/Brantley is also a success, Laporta hasn't amounted to ****. The trade that screwed the Brewers was trading Lawrie for Marcum, I was against it at the time and I still am correct.
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#14 gunnarthor

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:02 PM

That didn't take long :D

Seriously what was Bill Smith thinking?


Just a guess but I suspect he was thinking something along the lines of "we dropped 10 games in the standings in a month. Our bullpen sucks and has been pitching over its head. Ramos is injury prone and isn't hitting at AAA, I have the best catcher in baseball. We're in it to win now."

Incidentally, Sickels wrote about the trade when it happened: "The Twins traded Wilson Ramos and Joe Testa to the Nationals for Matt Capps. Capps reinforces the Twins bullpen for the stretch run. Testa isn't a prospect, but Ramos definitely is. I have some misgivings about his bat due to his sketchy plate discipline, but his glove has really come around and his power potential remains impressive. I like him, but not enough to pan the trade from Minnesota's point of view; I think it is fair for both teams. In my Shadow Twins universe, I will make this trade."

Baseball America noted: "The Twins had issues with his conditioning, and he's heavier than the above indicates. He's a base-clogger and well-below-average runner."

And going by bWAR since the trade, Capps has been worth 2.3 to Ramos' 2.0 (although comparing reliever WAR to anyone is sorta ridiculous).

#15 minn55441

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 07:12 PM

Right now the Gio Gonzalez trades looks like a steal for the Nat's but that is because he is tearing up the NL and the guys on the other end of the trade haven't made their mark yet. Here is what was said when the trade was announced last December.

In exchange for Gonzalez, a 26-year-old who has won 15-plus games and thrown 200-plus innings in each of the past two seasons, the Nationals are giving up three pitching prospects — right-handers Brad Peacock and A.J. Cole, and lefty Tommy Milone — plus catching prospect Derek Norris. Peacock, Cole and Norris ranked third, fourth and ninth, respectively, in Baseball America’s recent list of the Nationals’ top prospects. Gonzalez, a first-time all-star in 2011, is not without flaws. A power arm who ranked fourth in the American League in 2011 with 8.78 strikeouts per nine innings, he also led the league in walks, with 91, a year after finishing second with 90. It also appears he benefited from pitching in Oakland’s cavernous Coliseum the past four seasons, recording a career ERA of 3.56 at home versus 4.32 on the road.

Would you be willing to give up the Twins 3rd, 4th and 9th best prospects for a guy that has walked 90 and 91 batters the previous two seasons? Right now it looks like a one-sided trade for the Nationals, but you have to look back 8 or 10 years to really appreciate the value traded.

#16 TKGuy

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:36 PM

Viola for Tapani and Aggie (plus a couple) was a World Series kind of trade as it worked out. Knobby for Milton, Guzman, Buchanan and I think someone else seems to be thrown out there a lot. Those are the two I think of from the Twins perspective off the top of my head.


.... And who was the prize of the deal? DAVID WEST! Even Jack Savage and Tim Drummond pitched for the Twins. How often have all five players actually made the majors

#17 Rosterman

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:50 PM

.... And who was the prize of the deal? DAVID WEST! Even Jack Savage and Tim Drummond pitched for the Twins. How often have all five players actually made the majors


That's right, David West was the stud, the true prize pf that supposed deal. He was given every chance in hell, and didn't materialize. I still like the remembrances of all the names thrown out in Santana deals. Yankees" Hughes, Melky, Kennedy a PTBNL. Boston: Lester, Crisp, Masterson, Lowrie and Bowden. But the Twins had a hard-on for Ellsbury,

When one trades for prospects, one team gets the player they need right now for that season to put them over the top. The other team may get a prize or two or three who are blocked in the system (Ramos was expendable because of Mauer, for example).

#18 ashburyjohn

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 01:56 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions. I compiled them and wrote up a blog entry, comparing the current Twins roster to these blockbuster trades, if you have an interest.

#19 Boom Boom

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 02:28 PM

Which side wins?


The side that traded away a good but not great reliever with a multi-million dollar contract for a young, starting-caliber position player with several years of serfdom left.

If the Twins could trade Capps at the deadline for a prospect as good as Ramos, I'd be very pleased.

#20 adjacent

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 02:48 PM

I'll add another one that could turn out well. Delmon Young for Lester Oliveros and Cole Nelson.

#21 jorgenswest

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:10 PM

With all the discussion about possibly trading players away, where sometimes the opinion is "not unless we're blown away by an offer," I got to thinking about what kind of successful trade ought to be the benchmark now. Here are three, just off the top of my head:

  • Rangers trade Mark Teixeira for a nucleus
  • Braves trade Doyle Alexander for a future HOF starter
  • Twins trade A.J. Pierzynski for three pitchers who worked out to varying degrees
What other such trades would you nominate?


It is possible to look back and find many examples of trades that worked. To be fair we should add context.

Yes, John Smoltz became an elite player. You could have mentioned a few other details at the time of the trade. He was chosen in the 22nd round the previous season so he was not seen as a good prospect at that time. He was in the midst of his second season and was 4-10 with a 5.68 ERA. He had 86 strike outs and 81 walks in 130 innings.

So if the Twins trade Span for a player drafted in the 22nd round last year while scuffling through year 2, will you trust their scouting department to have found a gem like the Braves did in 1987?

#22 ashburyjohn

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 06:16 PM

[quote name='jorgenswest']It is possible to look back and find many examples of trades that worked. To be fair we should add context.[/QUOTE]

My purpose here isn't to try to do a complete study on how to make trades. Just to look back at trades viewed favorably for acquiring prospects, which is what the Twins probably want to try to do, and see if we can map anything to the present situation. So yes, there is a bit of 20/20 hindsight going on here, but I'm looking for successes to build on, not balance.

[quote name='jorgenswest']Yes, John Smoltz became an elite player. You could have mentioned a few other details at the time of the trade. He was chosen in the 22nd round the previous season so he was not seen as a good prospect at that time. [/QUOTE]

Guys can be chosen in the 22nd round for reasons other than being marginal. He was a 19 year old in his first pro season; maybe it was considered unlikely at draft time that he would skip college, so he dropped in the draft, and then the Tigers persuaded him. I note his signing was on Sept 22, which probably was close to some deadline (either MLB's, or enrollment in class). Unfortunately I don't know where to find signing bonuses; his Wikipedia page indicates he did attend Michigan State, and that basketball was also in the picture.

[quote name='jorgenswest']So if the Twins trade Span for a player drafted in the 22nd round last year while scuffling through year 2, will you trust their scouting department to have found a gem like the Braves did in 1987?[/QUOTE]

This is where you trust your scouting department. Just like when the Twins snared Hoey and Nishioka. :)

#23 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:48 PM

Larry Anderson for A baller Jeff Bagwell was a pretty good one.

#24 benhertz

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 02:17 AM

Does Johan Santana for Jared Camp count? They were both minor leaguers at the time of the trade.



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