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The hottest team in baseball..

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#1 mikeee

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 03:54 PM

The Twins are 9-2 in their last 11 games, and have won their last 4 series..' Playin good ball. Will is last? I know some of the teams have been easy.

#2 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 04:04 PM

Depends on how the starting pitching holds up - the last couple of weeks they've done fairly well. They've lowered their collective starting ERA to 5.99

#3 mikeee

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 04:18 PM

Are we still sellers!?!?!

#4 jokin

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 04:28 PM

Depends on how the starting pitching holds up - the last couple of weeks they've done fairly well. They've lowered their collective starting ERA to 5.99


The RP has been phenomenal with a 1.66 ERA over the last 14 days and 1.25 over the last 7. Probably unsustainable, as their season RP ERA is 3.45 (unless they DFA Gray :confused:).

#5 mikeee

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 04:51 PM

How about that Scott Diamond!?!?!?

#6 Ultima Ratio

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:15 PM

I believe the Pirates are the hottest team in baseball, actually! Routing for them too, of course!
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#7 mikeee

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:30 PM

I believe the Pirates are the hottest team in baseball, actually! Routing for them too, of course!


They are only 7-3 in their last 10.
But they can pound on KC all tehy want!

#8 mikeee

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:31 PM

Ok, I know we have played some weak teams too... lol It just feels good to win...

#9 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:40 PM

Yeah, it does feel good to win. It's too bad we dug ourselves such a deep hole so early. So far, it's a similar script to last year. Bad start, followed by a June surge against weak teams. It'll be interesting to see what happens next as the season wears on and the competition gets tougher. I'm not expecting the unstoppable freight train that we saw from June on in 2006, but I'm hopeful that it will be better than the second-half train wreck of 2011.

#10 minn55441

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:41 PM

We still have the worst record in the AL. We have pulled even with KC at 24 wins. I think we can play .500 ball for the rest of the season and end up with 76 wins. I think that makes us sellers. Winning at an 80% clip isn't going to happen with this pitching staff.

#11 mikeee

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:42 PM

It's the AL central.... We're only down 8 games!! ;)

Yeah, it does feel good to win.

It's too bad we dug ourselves such a deep hole so early.

So far, it's a similar script to last year. Bad start, followed by a June surge against weak teams.

It'll be interesting to see what happens next as the season wears on and the competition gets tougher.

I'm not expecting the unstoppable freight train that we saw from June on in 2006, but I'm hopeful that it will be better than the second-half train wreck of 2011.


#12 Highabove

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:47 PM

We only have 2 more losses then the Tigers. Who would have thunk it ?????

#13 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:54 PM

It's the AL central.... We're only down 8 games!! ;)


---Yeah, my head says that the best thing about this run is that it helps build trade value of guys we should be looking to sell off at the deadline, but there's always that small part of me that roots for the team with my heart and stubbornly refuses to give up until the team is mathematically eliminated.

I remember going to games with my Dad as a kid, and being down by like 12 runs in the 8th inning, and he'd ask if I wanted to go. And I would defiantly insist on staying because, dammit, it's ain't over 'til it's over. Guess I wasn't able to completely mature out of that.

#14 mikeee

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 06:02 PM

It ain't over till it's over...
I remember this box score from a game with Cleveland and Seattle the year that the mariners had like 117 wins....

M's were up 14-2 in teh 7th....

http://www.baseball-...id=200108050CLE



---Yeah, my head says that the best thing about this run is that it helps build trade value of guys we should be looking to sell off at the deadline, but there's always that small part of me that roots for the team with my heart and stubbornly refuses to give up until the team is mathematically eliminated.

I remember going to games with my Dad as a kid, and being down by like 12 runs in the 8th inning, and he'd ask if I wanted to go. And I would defiantly insist on staying because, dammit, it's ain't over 'til it's over. Guess I wasn't able to completely mature out of that.


#15 jokin

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 06:19 PM

Depends on how the starting pitching holds up - the last couple of weeks they've done fairly well. They've lowered their collective starting ERA to 5.99


I'm not sure if you're comment was tongue in cheek or not. But it is striking, and possibly unprecedented, at how truly awful the members of the original Twins starting staff have performed this year. Believe it or not, according to Fangraphs: The Twins original starters are ranked #1(Hendriks 9.00) #2 (Blackburn 7.73) #3 (Marquis 7.65) #5 (Liriano 6.65) and #12 (Pavano 6.00) in worst ERA in all of the SPs in baseball. As of today (before including today's game), the ERA is still the worst in baseball at 6.11, lower even than the lowly Rockies who play in the launching pad that is Coors Field, who check in at 5.85. That Cole DeVries comes in as a breath of fresh air to the rotation is telling at how abysmally bad this staff has been.

On a string of positive notes: 1) Blackburn and Liriano are back, showing at least a pulse in Blackie's case and a case for hope in Frankie's. 2)Hendriks, barring one anomalous performance, has been lights out in Rochester 3)Pavano has a history of bouncing back from the brink of extinction 4) Can't say this enough, Marquis is out of his, and our, misery, 5) Diamond appears to be the real deal, completely reversing most of his negative patterns from last year (at or near the top in ERA, BB/9 and GB%). Probably not sustainable, but even a regression to the mean of his two years combined in the majors qualifies for Ace on this staff.

#16 nokomismod

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 06:29 PM

Twins win! So great to see them battle back last night with a great pen performance and big hits. Mauer looks rested and could go on a tear. Parmalee might even hit a little and show us whether the Twins can deal Morneau.

#17 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 06:43 PM

We are all happy but....... At 24-34.....MN is 16-13 in last 29 14-8 in last 22 9 of last 11 Chicago is 33-26 and in first place. Their .559 winning percentage is good for 91 wins If the Twins play at that pace over their next 59gms..... they are 57-60 after AUG 13th.....

#18 jokin

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 06:49 PM

We are all happy but.......
At 24-34.....MN is
16-13 in last 29
14-8 in last 22
9 of last 11

Chicago is 33-26 and in first place. Their .559 winning percentage is good for 91 wins

If the Twins play at that pace over their next 59gms.....
they are 57-60 after AUG 13th.....


A strong case for why the Twins have to stare cold reality in the face and rebuild. In this crazy division, even 87 wins could sneak a team in, but what's the point in even trying? It doesn't make business or competitive team sense to pretend to contend, if it hurts the team's chances in the intermediate and long-term, as was proven last year.

#19 gil4

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 06:50 PM

This really feels like last year. There was a horrible start, a recovery in June to give us some hope. I think 46-51 was the record before the bottom fell out. Last year the injuries really hit in July. If they can stay healthy and if the pitching holds together (big ifs) they have enough offense to win a weak division. A couple of weeks ago I looked at the schedule and thought that maybe they could make a run and get to .500 by the end of June. It was wishful thinking from an irrational optimist, and even now it's a bit of a stretch. If they can go 15-4 for the rest of the month... (Finish the sweep of the Cubs, then 2 of 3, 2 of 3, sweep; repeat). Diamond seems to have figured something out and it might be sustainable. I'm not so confident in Walters. I'm still hopeful about Liriano, although I have accepted reality about my preseason Cy Young prediction for him. (I bought a Liriano replica jersey for $30 on Amazon during the off season and it affected my brain. I guess I should have gone with the Morneau jersey, but then I probably would have tagged him for MVP.) Pavano and Blackburn are both big question marks, bot hfor health and performance, and the DL might be the safest place for both of them. (I suppose they could just alternate.) Manship (or is it Shipman or Manhsip?) might finally be ready and healthy. Either Duensing or Swarzak would be OK in the rotation if needed. I know Devries is a MN guy and it was a nice story, but AAA is his place. OK, the pitching scares me, but it's possible to put together a good, young rotation with this bunch. If that happens (I said possible, not likely) then we might have a season after all.

#20 jokin

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 07:05 PM

Either Duensing or Swarzak would be OK in the rotation if needed.






I think you make a lot of good observations, the sense of "deja vu all over" is in the air. However, I do think your optimism got the best of you with Swarzak and Duensing, I think they might be "OK" relative to what the first two months SP stats were, but I think you need to cite evidence that suggests these two are ever going to be more valuable to the team other than in the roles they currently employ.

#21 Land Of 10,000 Beasts

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:02 PM

Are we still sellers!?!?!


Too early to tell. If we can play .500 ball til the trade deadline, I doubt we will make any drastic trades like a Mourneau, Willingham, or Span trade. They want to appease to the fans so we keep coming and buying $8 beers.

#22 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:37 PM

A strong case for why the Twins have to stare cold reality in the face and rebuild. In this crazy division, even 87 wins could sneak a team in, but what's the point in even trying? It doesn't make business or competitive team sense to pretend to contend, if it hurts the team's chances in the intermediate and long-term, as was proven last year.



---I agree with you on the rebuild. (Though as a guy who follows the T-Wolves in the winter, I kinda bristle at the word. It can be a slippery slope.) We should absolutely be sellers at the deadline, and making moves for next year and beyond.

But even if we hold a fire sale and move Capps, Span, Carroll, etc., who knows what the remaining guys might be able to do in this division. Just because the front office has turned its attention to the future doesn't mean the coaches and players should. It's highly unlikely the Twins will win it, but it would be nice to at least see them make it a bit interesting. If nothing else, it would be good experience for Dozier, Diamond and some of the other young guys to play some semi-meaningful second-half games.

Like you said, it's a crazy division. I wouldn't be surprised to see the eventual AL Central winner have even less than 87 wins. The Whities are facing a much tougher second-half schedule, Cleveland is thoroughly mediocre, Detroit hasn't shown any signs of figuring it out, and the Royals are, well, the Royals - they're the team of the future and they always will be.

So while I'm all for building for the future, I'm not ready to concede this year yet. (Some may call it naive optimism, but it's really just old-fashioned Irish stubborness.)

#23 old nurse

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:08 AM

Are we still sellers!?!?!


I would say that no one on this team for the right price is safe from trades. On the other hand, no one on this team at this is worth selling for much. Except for Capps, the players with expiring contracts would be bit players at best on another team. A Liriano that could pitch to potential would either be untouchable or sold for a high price. History is against Liriano. Moving anyone with more than other year left on their contract would be either salary dump or trading a decent overpaid player for another player of similar caliber Span would be the exception. If they move Span it would hopefully be for something like a potentially stud starting pitcher with good mechanics and other prospects. He is the one Twin that should bring a large return

Edited by old nurse, 10 June 2012 - 03:14 AM.


#24 Dilligaf69

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 09:34 AM

3 or 4 more wins in April/early May and we're right in this thing, 3 o4 wins does'nt sound like alot but it is in this division..Crazy but true!

#25 Dilligaf69

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 09:38 AM

I don't see a fire sale...Span/ Capps and maybe Liriano are still the most likely to get moved. I think they try to extend Doumit before the deadline and if not then try to trade him. I think Willingham is here to stay and Justin too unless they get a offer to good to pass on but I don't see that with $13+ mil left on his contract and his injury concerns.

#26 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 10:23 AM

3 or 4 more wins in April/early May and we're right in this thing, 3 o4 wins does'nt sound like alot but it is in this division..Crazy but true!



---Yeah, if we'd managed just a bad 14-22 start instead of a horrific 10-26 start, there would probably be a bit of a different feeling about this season.

#27 John Bonnes

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 10:29 AM

I don't think we're buyer or sellers yet - because nobody is buying or selling yet. When the all-star break comes around, that's about when a decision needs to be made. That's still 27 games away. BUT, one could play some hypothetical games to help serve as a reality check later. Certainly, if the Twins will all 27 and ar 17 games over .500 at the All-Star break, they aren't sellers. So there is some number at which the team - if not becoming a buyer, at least doesn't sell. Where do people think that line should be? For instance, if the Twins go 18-9, are one game under .500 at the ASB and are 3.5 GB of a division leader, I gotta think they aren't sellers. Or do people think they still should be? It is looking more and more like the AL Central will be won with a total of something like 87 wins. And the Twins have a ton of game versus their own division left. Hell, they have 15 games left against the division leader.

#28 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:06 AM

I'm not sure if you're comment was tongue in cheek or not. But it is striking, and possibly unprecedented, at how truly awful the members of the original Twins starting staff have performed this year. Believe it or not, according to Fangraphs: The Twins original starters are ranked #1(Hendriks 9.00) #2 (Blackburn 7.73) #3 (Marquis 7.65) #5 (Liriano 6.65) and #12 (Pavano 6.00) in worst ERA in all of the SPs in baseball. As of today (before including today's game), the ERA is still the worst in baseball at 6.11, lower even than the lowly Rockies who play in the launching pad that is Coors Field, who check in at 5.85. That Cole DeVries comes in as a breath of fresh air to the rotation is telling at how abysmally bad this staff has been.

On a string of positive notes: 1) Blackburn and Liriano are back, showing at least a pulse in Blackie's case and a case for hope in Frankie's. 2)Hendriks, barring one anomalous performance, has been lights out in Rochester 3)Pavano has a history of bouncing back from the brink of extinction 4) Can't say this enough, Marquis is out of his, and our, misery, 5) Diamond appears to be the real deal, completely reversing most of his negative patterns from last year (at or near the top in ERA, BB/9 and GB%). Probably not sustainable, but even a regression to the mean of his two years combined in the majors qualifies for Ace on this staff.


It was meant seriously - I was noting that over the last few weeks they've lowered their starting ERA from 6.60+ to under 6.00 - that's a good accomplishment and shows a rotation that is starting to put out competitive starts.

Naturally, I'd like the trend to continue - let's get it under 5.00 if we can.

#29 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:15 AM

I don't think we're buyer or sellers yet - because nobody is buying or selling yet. When the all-star break comes around, that's about when a decision needs to be made. That's still 27 games away.

BUT, one could play some hypothetical games to help serve as a reality check later. Certainly, if the Twins will all 27 and ar 17 games over .500 at the All-Star break, they aren't sellers. So there is some number at which the team - if not becoming a buyer, at least doesn't sell. Where do people think that line should be?

For instance, if the Twins go 18-9, are one game under .500 at the ASB and are 3.5 GB of a division leader, I gotta think they aren't sellers. Or do people think they still should be? It is looking more and more like the AL Central will be won with a total of something like 87 wins. And the Twins have a ton of game versus their own division left. Hell, they have 15 games left against the division leader.


I think that's the same thing Soucheray was talking about in a column recently, hoping the club wouldn't go down that road again. Then again, I don't agree with Soucheray often, so...

I think if you're 4 games under .500 or less, and within 8 games of the division leader, you don't sell. At that point with 2 months left I figure you can make up realistically about 1 game/week on the leader over that whole time. I wouldn't necessarily buy unless we were above .500 and within 4 games of the lead.

I know there are some who will say just seeking to win the division is not good enough and we should stock up on prospects in the hopes of a world series run in a few years and forget about the division, but I am not one of those. I'd love to win the series again, to be sure, but I don't think that's realistic under any scenario given the size of our media market and the importance local TV contracts now plays in total revenue.

#30 Blake

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:19 AM

John, I believe there is an old axiom about baseball that says that if a team is .500 at All Star break, anything can happen. Anyway, if the Twins are a .500 team at All Star, I suspect the Twins become buyers, if they can get a front line pitcher. However, I think the Twins will also weigh short term interests against the long term. I don't think the Twins will give up the farm for a rental arm. Which takes me to my second thought..I think the Twins are really on the horns of a dilemma. The Twins, as you pointed out in another post, have what appears to be an excellent core of position players that should be enable the team to win over the next few years, if the starting pitching comes around. But, can the Twins afford to give up any of the core players for anything less than a haul of front line prospects? I just don't see it happening for less than several pitching prospects. (Calvin Griffith, if memory serves, always said you never trade position players straight up for a pitcher, because position players are every day players, whereas pitchers pitch once every 5 days) I think the Twins stand pat this year (Liam Hendricks is waiting in the wings) and let a lot of salary go (Capps, Pavano, Marquis, Liriano) and do something they're not known to do: go after a top of the line free agent starting pitcher. Of course, I can see the Twins completely blowing up the team if this team doesn't play at least .500 ball this year.