Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Photo

Terry Ryan scheduled to see Alex Meyer pitch for the first time next Monday

  • Please log in to reply
102 replies to this topic

#1 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 8,949 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:57 PM

This little Berardino column from early yesterday slipped my perusal:

 

Twinsights:  What's the Plan for Meyer?

 

 

 

As noted in this space Tuesday, that leaves (Meyer) plenty of room to finish out the year with three final starts for the Red Wings, followed by a potential September debut for the Twins.

 

When I asked Ryan about that possibility, he shook his head. “I don’t know yet,” Ryan said. “I’m going to see him (pitch next Monday in Rochester). I’m going to see the whole club, of course, but I’ll see him for the first time (at that level). It’s important that when you bring a guy up they’re prepared to pitch at this level. So we’ll see how prepared he looks.”  So it’s an excellent bet that Ryan will make his first and only 2014 visit to Rochester this weekend.

 

Ryan's somewhat shocking answer, "I don't know yet", and the revelation that this will be his first and only in-person viewing of Meyer in 2014 is pretty telling. "Consistency" evidently has been replaced by "prepared" as the promotion fall-back impediment-crutch-word.

 

I think this little snippet makes it clear that Meyer was never realistically in the plans for 2014.  Previously in the article, Ryan expressed how pleased "the plan" laid out for Meyer in 2014 has been largely accomplished- the plan apparently being:  

 

"Let's manage innings and pitch count very closely and nurse Meyer through an entire AAA season without a shutdown" .....

 

and definitely not:

 

"Let's see if we can manage his development and innings limitations in AAA commensurate with as early a call-up to the Twins as possible to continue to maximize his developmental trajectory."

Edited by jokin, 21 August 2014 - 06:29 PM.

  • Hosken Bombo Disco likes this

#2 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 8,395 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:13 PM

Isn't this like the Madden curse?

 

It is hard to believe that it is a requirement the GM see a player at a level before that guy can be promoted. 

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#3 Cast of Thousands

Cast of Thousands

    Elizabethton

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:16 PM

I'd like to see Meyer have more than one game in a row in which he doesn't walk a handful of players or take 90+ pitches to get through 4-5 innings.

 

No doubt, the last start looked outstanding but the two starts before that:

 

August 9:  2.0 Innings, 64 pitches, 2 BB

August 14:  3.2 Innings, 84 pitches, 3 BB

 

With as good of stuff as he has, how can he possibly be so inefficient?  Another thing I've been wondering.... If Pinto is as substandard behind the plate as it sounds like many think he is, is that hurting someone like Meyer from really reaching his potential?

  • Paul Pleiss likes this

#4 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 8,949 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:19 PM

Isn't this like the Madden curse?

 

It is hard to believe that it is a requirement the GM see a player at a level before that guy can be promoted. 

 

Even more stunning, Ryan's comments apparently imply that Meyer has NEVER been under consideration for promotion because of a lack of definitive information about Meyer's major-league preparedness, information that apparently only Terry Ryan is capable to gather in-person.  Baffling.


#5 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 8,395 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:23 PM

I'm trying really, really hard to not take that TR statement as some kind of actual requirement.....

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#6 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 8,949 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:28 PM

I'd like to see Meyer have more than one game in a row in which he doesn't walk a handful of players or take 90+ pitches to get through 4-5 innings.

 

No doubt, the last start looked outstanding but the two starts before that:

 

August 9:  2.0 Innings, 64 pitches, 2 BB

August 14:  3.2 Innings, 84 pitches, 3 BB

 

With as good of stuff as he has, how can he possibly be so inefficient?  Another thing I've been wondering.... If Pinto is as substandard behind the plate as it sounds like many think he is, is that hurting someone like Meyer from really reaching his potential?

 

Before August 14, he had a 7 game in a row string of excellent outings.  Meyer had an amazing string of five straight games of 6 innings per game, with a 1.50 ERA and a .177 BA, followed by two more strong outings of 5 and 5.2 innings.  He's on an innings/pitch count limitation, he's doing what's being asked of him for the most part, and proves he's not a finished product as illustrated in your August 9 and August 14 outings.  But he's clearly got the best major league-ready stuff in the upper minors, it's a big question if he's best being served by throwing all of these innings in AAA, or with the big club, which is spinning its wheels anyway.

 

Regarding his inefficiency, all very tall pitchers struggle with their deliveries, particularly as they are developing.  Plus, add the fact that he's developed a new third pitch this year.

Edited by jokin, 21 August 2014 - 03:31 PM.


#7 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,188 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:36 PM

Pretty much confirms it for me. He was never coming up this year.

When the bar is pelfrey, Nolasco, pino etc. a group wih one of the worst era's in the league it is insulting To suggest Meyer is not prepared. It is all relative.

If he is deemed prepared, they will shut him down and say aww shucks.

It is also just bizarre that the gm has not seen his 3rd prospect play.

Edited by tobi0040, 21 August 2014 - 03:39 PM.


#8 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 8,949 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:52 PM


It is also just bizarre that the gm has not seen his 3rd prospect play.

 

It was widely reported that Terry Ryan was the closer on the deal for Kendrys Morales on June 2.  And that he more or less has been back full-time since on or before June 11.  There have been multiple starting pitcher promotions during these last 2+ months.  It follows logically then, that the issue of the prospects for promotion of the #3 overall prospect and the #1 pitching prospect has curiously been in the dead letter file all season- or perhaps, maybe TR is under severe traveling restrictions due to his health concerns?


#9 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,188 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 04:21 PM

It was widely reported that Terry Ryan was the closer on the deal for Kendrys Morales on June 2.  And that he more or less has been back full-time since on or before June 11.  There have been multiple starting pitcher promotions during these last 2+ months.  It follows logically then, that the issue of the prospects for promotion of the #3 overall prospect and the #1 pitching prospect has curiously been in the dead letter file all season- or perhaps, maybe TR is under severe traveling restrictions due to his health concerns?


Unfortunately we could be in the same place next year. A few guys have a lower era through 40 innings and leap him. Then of course the twins will salivate at the thought of delaying his service time another year.

#10 CRArko

CRArko

    Agent of SHIELD

  • Members
  • 2,261 posts
  • LocationEngaging Theta Protocol.
  • Twitter: crarko

Posted 21 August 2014 - 04:29 PM

You guys make me think of this.

It’s been a really long day—like, Eugene O’Neill long. - T. Stark

#11 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 10,455 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:31 PM

After watching May throw the ball everywhere but over the white part of the plate, it's entirely possible that the Twins are coming from a position of knowledge with Meyer.

 

I want to see Meyer up here as much as anybody but after the "delays" in promoting Gibson and May and their subsequent awfulterribhorribleness in MLB the past two seasons, maybe it's time to reconsider exactly how much we know about these guys, particularly in comparison to the Twins' coaching staff that gets to watch them every day.

 

A crazy thought, I know.

  • gunnarthor, diehardtwinsfan, twinsnorth49 and 3 others like this

#12 old nurse

old nurse

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,897 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:37 PM

There is a manager and a pitching coach in Rochester fully capable of assessing Meyer.'s performance It is a fairly good bet they have an understanding of what Meyerr needs to work on and his performance goals.That is more telling than a minor league stat line available online.The service clock theory kind of goes out the window by July.


#13 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,393 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:47 PM

Ryan just made his first trip to Cedar Rapids about a month ago, and then he made a trip with the big league club out west. Then there was the trade deadline. 

 

Second... most likely Brad Steil, Mike Radcliff, Eric Rasmussen, the coaching staff, Rob Antony and others have been to Rochester games this year.  Obviously Ryan wants to see everyone, but that hasn't been feasible this year. He also has complete confidence in his staff to look beyond the stats to see if he is prepared for the big leagues or not. 

 

Ryan said he didn't know if Meyer was going to get promoted. Would people have liked it better if he would have just flat-out said No, he's not going to get promoted? He's not going to tip his hand either way to a reporter. 

 

I want to see him up as much as anyone, but let's not worry so much about specific quotes from a GM when you know that he's not going to directly answer any question about this topic, and shouldn't.

  • gunnarthor, SwainZag, PseudoSABR and 1 other like this

#14 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,393 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:48 PM

After watching May throw the ball everywhere but over the white part of the plate, it's entirely possible that the Twins are coming from a position of knowledge with Meyer.

 

I want to see Meyer up here as much as anybody but after the "delays" in promoting Gibson and May and their subsequent awfulterribhorribleness in MLB the past two seasons, maybe it's time to reconsider exactly how much we know about these guys, particularly in comparison to the Twins' coaching staff that gets to watch them every day.

 

A crazy thought, I know.

 

Crazy talk, Brock! Ha!


#15 h2oface

h2oface

    Lifelong since '61

  • Members
  • 834 posts
  • LocationTralfamadore

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:49 PM

Meyers is as ready as all but Gibson and Hughes, and even they have had several games that mirror some of Meyers.  There is really nothing to lose by giving Meyers a shot before the end of the year, that is.......... since they missed his whole year and can't turn back the clock.  


#16 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 8,949 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:53 PM

After watching May throw the ball everywhere but over the white part of the plate, it's entirely possible that the Twins are coming from a position of knowledge with Meyer.

 

I want to see Meyer up here as much as anybody but after the "delays" in promoting Gibson and May and their subsequent awfulterribhorribleness in MLB the past two seasons, maybe it's time to reconsider exactly how much we know about these guys, particularly in comparison to the Twins' coaching staff that gets to watch them every day.

 

A crazy thought, I know.

 

I think all we've gathered for sure from May's 3 performances thus far, is that, given his month off due to injury, and his sketchy minor league appearances afterward, plus the usual difficult adjustments that most prospective SPs  have after call-up, his early struggles are entirely to be expected, and he definitely looked more the part of a major league pitcher in his last appearance. And as in Gibson's case, these can be thought of as necessary, but arduous, growing pains that may as well be dealt with sooner rather than later.  

 

Where your supposition rings especially true for May, with respect to the front office's concern in promoting him, is the fact that thus far, he's far from the "power pitcher" that was advertised.  To this point, we've seen a pretty ordinary, strictly low-90s straight fastball, and an utterly useless curve. Certainly not the mid-90s FB/ plus curve, strike-out machine that was previously billed.

 

After seeing Meyer pitch in person, I can assure everyone that Meyer isn't the "previously-billed" May, let alone the current major league May.  If the Twins really have even less confidence in Meyer than May....i.e,, to be given at least a chance to get his feet wet this year, than something's really gone terribly wrong with both of Terry's biggest and most-celebrated trades in his second tenure at the helm. 


#17 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,393 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:58 PM

There is a manager and a pitching coach in Rochester fully capable of assessing Meyer.'s performance It is a fairly good bet they have an understanding of what Meyerr needs to work on and his performance goals.That is more telling than a minor league stat line available online.The service clock theory kind of goes out the window by July.

 

Absolutely correct... Service Clock, arbitration, free agency, they're all out the door at this point.


#18 Hosken Bombo Disco

Hosken Bombo Disco

    Toledo Mud Hens

  • Members
  • 2,071 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 06:01 PM

Maybe we should conclude that Meyer, despite his stuff, just isn't that hot a prospect if the team isn't willing to give him a shot up here ahead of the Pinos and Darnells. In other words, we Twins fans built him up to something he was not, and believed our own hype.

When I hear a pitcher is throwing a “simulated game” my first thought is that he repeated the opposing lineup 10,000 times. - Jonathan Judge

#19 Hosken Bombo Disco

Hosken Bombo Disco

    Toledo Mud Hens

  • Members
  • 2,071 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 06:02 PM

Because he certainly would have made his debut long since now, if he were still in the Washington system, control or not.

  • jokin likes this
When I hear a pitcher is throwing a “simulated game” my first thought is that he repeated the opposing lineup 10,000 times. - Jonathan Judge

#20 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 8,949 posts

Posted 21 August 2014 - 06:11 PM

Because he certainly would have made his debut long since now, if he were still in the Washington system, control or not.

 

I don't know about you Hosken, but I believe my own eyes and even moreso, the eyes of every single scouting service, which all have him ranked somewhere in the top 50 prospects.  Will he struggle initially if he's ever promoted?  Undoubtedly.  But talk of being "prepared" or not, as the new setting of the bar, or the reason for holding him back at this point, lacks credibility. If they publicly stated that he's an unfinished product, I could buy into that characterization 100 percent, but that shouldn't mean he doesn't deserve a promotion.

Edited by jokin, 21 August 2014 - 06:12 PM.