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OK GM's, your LF addition for 2015 is...

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#101 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 09:23 AM

Future depreciation of the dollar?This is not at all what time value of money means.Time value of money means that Pohlad can invest that 15M extra frontloaded into Melky's contract somewhere (they're bankers) and have 18-20M in a few years when it's time to pay Melky. 

I know what time value of money means. I thought my point was pretty clear without going into an economics lesson. There are several ways paying money today costs more than paying money tomorrow.

 

The point stands. If the Pohlads aren't carrying over profits/losses from year to year, I don't have much sympathy for them worrying about the valuation of $5m today versus $5m tomorrow.


#102 Mike Sixel

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 09:42 AM

We have previously heard they do not carry money over year to year........so, yes, there are reasons (if you care about winning, and not just money) to front load contracts.

 

Does anyone think they are banking all this money right now, and will go out and sign 4 super high priced FAs in the future?

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#103 DJL44

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 11:02 AM

I doubt Melky Cabrera gets more than a 3 year deal anyway. He's already had a 50 game suspension for steroids and his next one will be 100 games. I also don't trust the Twins medical staff to keep a guy with his medical history healthy.


#104 DJL44

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 11:04 AM

We have previously heard they do not carry money over year to year........so, yes, there are reasons (if you care about winning, and not just money) to front load contracts.

 

Just like they've stated that they don't carry money over, the Twins also don't front-load free agent contracts so I guess it's futile to argue that they should do either one.


#105 Mike Sixel

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 11:33 AM

Just like they've stated that they don't carry money over, the Twins also don't front-load free agent contracts so I guess it's futile to argue that they should do either one.

 

Probably true, but as others remind me, they had never signed deals like Nolasco before.....so there is hope.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#106 drjim

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 12:37 PM

Or the Twins could sign Melky Cabrera and front load the contract, since they'll be way under budget next season, then he won't be a weight around the Twins towards the end of that contract and he still might be movable.There are options other than "don't sign expensive FA's".

 

He wouldn't do that, union wouldn't like it, and Twins probably have no interest. Other than that it is probably a good option.

Papers...business papers.

#107 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 12:42 PM

He wouldn't do that, union wouldn't like it, and Twins probably have no interest. Other than that it is probably a good option.

While we agree that it probably won't happen, the union shouldn't have any objections to such a deal. Any way you shake it, the player is receiving more money than he is via a regular or back-loaded contract.

 

Of course, that doesn't mean the union wouldn't object, it only means they shouldn't object.


#108 drjim

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 12:55 PM

I think worrying too much about "future sustained success" is exactly the wrong approach. I think that's the approach most likely to keep you rebuilding.

Get the best players you can. If, for example, you are paying Melky Cabrera $10M and a rookie forces him off his position, now you're paying $10.5M for a player better than Cabrera, which doesn't kill you. If the rookie doesn't force him off his position, you still have Cabrera. If you do nothing, and wait for the rookie, you stand a good chance of ending up with neither when the rookie flames out, or gets hurt, or never makes the big leagues. Not to mention, you might be able to unload at least some of Cabrera's salary if at some point you no longer need him. If not, it's only money...no team ever loses because they spent money. Or at the least, it causes way fewer problems than not spending. There is no salary cap in MLB.

Continually shopping at the dollar store for cheap one year FAs isn't the answer...we should all know that by now.

 

I disagree, long term sustained success should be the primary motivating factor for decisions made by the Twins in the upcoming offseason. There is no indication that this is going to be a short window, and in that situation errors of commission are much more costly than errors of ommission. He is probably the *best* LF available, but that is a testament to the poor quality of the fas, not how good Cabrera is. 

 

Part of it is that I just don't trust Cabrera and don't think he is worth the contract he is going to get. He is injury prone, steroid tainted, has had two good seasons, one great season (steroid enhanced), doesn't hit for a lot of power, doesn't walk a bunch (though also doesn't k too much either). I don't buy that skillset is worthy to invest in long term.

Papers...business papers.

#109 Major Leauge Ready

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 12:55 PM

Don't ask me how but I would like to get Joc Pederson from the Dodgers. He is batting 300 (AAA), has 32 bombs and just stole his 30th base of the season.Normally, no way would a guy like this be available but he is blocked big-time in LA.

Edited by Major Leauge Ready, 25 August 2014 - 12:55 PM.


#110 drjim

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 12:58 PM

While we agree that it probably won't happen, the union shouldn't have any objections to such a deal. Any way you shake it, the player is receiving more money than he is via a regular or back-loaded contract.

 

Of course, that doesn't mean the union wouldn't object, it only means they shouldn't object.

 

The importance has probably decreased since arbitration doesn't matter for free agents, but I suspect the issue is that they want a market set at certain ages for certain positions. Frontloading contracts depresses the market in later years of a career.

Papers...business papers.

#111 drjim

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 01:00 PM

Don't ask me how but I would like to get Joc Pederson from the Dodgers. He is batting 300 (AAA), has 32 bombs and just stole his 30th base of the season.Normally, no way would a guy like this be available but he is blocked big-time in LA.

 

LA is much more likely to trade Kemp or Either than Pederson.

Papers...business papers.

#112 Major Leauge Ready

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 01:23 PM

You are probably right but who is going to take Kemps contract.He is signed through 2018 or maybe even 2019.I guess LA could pay a big chunk but that contract is a big problem.Then, does it make sense for a contender to trade away Either.

 

No doubt this is a long-shot.I was looking for ways to position the team long-term as opposed to taking on another long-term contract destined to be a problem when this team is finally ready to contend. 


#113 LA VIkes Fan

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 01:34 PM

I live in LA - there's no chance of getting Joc Pederson unless we want to trade a similar prospect like a Buxton or Sano. Ethier may be available in the off season, but he doesn't do much for me.We should take a look at Scott Van Slyke.He's done well for the Dodgers in limited duty (.265/.376.500 with 9 HRs and 20 RBIs in 170 ABs) and he's 28 and right handed. he;s also a decent OF and has played CF for the Dodgers on occasion.  He may flower with regular time and shouldn't be price prohibitive in terms of prospects.


#114 Oxtung

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 02:21 PM

He wouldn't do that, union wouldn't like it, and Twins probably have no interest. Other than that it is probably a good option.

It's already being done. I found 4 big contracts last season that were front loaded in a quick search. See David wrights deal. Other than the twins feelings on the subject there is no reason they couldn't front load a big signings contract.

#115 drjim

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 02:27 PM

It's already being done. I found 4 big contracts last season that were front loaded in a quick search. See David wrights deal. Other than the twins feelings on the subject there is no reason they couldn't front load a big signings contract.

 

I imagine there is some flexibility for 8 year extensions signed with the current clubs that go deep into decline years. 

 

Did you find any 3-5 year free agent contracts that included this? That would be the comp, right?

 

EDIT: Your last sentence is certainly factually correct, I wouldn't dispute that. I do think a player probably wouldn't do it and the union wouldn't be happy, but there is nothing in the rules to prevent it.

Edited by drjim, 25 August 2014 - 02:29 PM.

Papers...business papers.

#116 Oxtung

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 02:45 PM

I imagine there is some flexibility for 8 year extensions signed with the current clubs that go deep into decline years. 
 
Did you find any 3-5 year free agent contracts that included this? That would be the comp, right?
 
EDIT: Your last sentence is certainly factually correct, I wouldn't dispute that. I do think a player probably wouldn't do it and the union wouldn't be happy, but there is nothing in the rules to prevent it.


I'm not sure what to tell you. I show you an instance where it has already been done and you still say it won't happen.

#117 drjim

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 03:28 PM

I'm not sure what to tell you. I show you an instance where it has already been done and you still say it won't happen.

 

You are talking about really different scenarios. I'm curious if it has ever happened with a free agent signed from outside the organization.

 

I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm saying I can never recall it actually happening and don't think it will happen (for the reasons I have stated).

Papers...business papers.