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OK GM's, your LF addition for 2015 is...

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#61 SwainZag

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:53 PM

The Sox are back-loading a contract? That makes... no sense whatsoever. If anything, they should be trying to front-load a contract because they're a looooooong way from contention.

 

Honestly, they should be blowing up the team and starting over but that's another discussion entirely.

 

The Sox are back-loading a contract? That makes... no sense whatsoever. If anything, they should be trying to front-load a contract because they're a looooooong way from contention.

 

Honestly, they should be blowing up the team and starting over but that's another discussion entirely.

Yeah, according to Ken Rosenthal here: "Heavily Back Loaded" https://twitter.com/...846959900983296


#62 Mike Sixel

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:55 PM

If you have money to spare, flopping does not matter. If it only took 10 million a year to sign Melky, it would be a bargain. We disagree greatly on the requirement for fans to wait 6 or more years for a team to be competitive. I think there is no such requirement to being a good fan.

The Hicks trade was years ago, before this last contract for Lee. Not sure what this contract has to do with my point at all.

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#63 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:55 PM

Yeah, according to Ken Rosenthal here: "Heavily Back Loaded" https://twitter.com/...846959900983296

Good news for the Twins. That's all that needs to be said about that.


#64 Oxtung

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:57 PM

Who are you buying?  What realistic 1-2 year LF are you going to buy that's going to put up much better numbers than Parmalee/Hicks in LF?  There will be no long term game changers in free agency this year, and after the outside chance of taking a shot at Tomas, who are they going to bring in?  With Buxton, Arcia, Rosario and Hicks all in the minors right now it's not reasonable to overpay an OF like Melky on a 4-5 year deal.

 

I would have no problems signing Melky.Buxton just had a very serious brain injury and hurt both his wrists this year.Arcia has some big questions about his defense and contact.Rosario has been poor at AA this season and has off the field issue and Hicks has failed miserably both times he's tried it in MLB.None of those guys are guarantees and a couple are huge question marks.In fact I'd guess only 1 will have an average or better career. 

 

You also asked if I'd trade Hicks for Lee.In a heart beat.Doubly so if you can guarantee that Lee will be healthy next season.A mediocre at best OF or a chance at a true ace?Easy decision.


#65 SwainZag

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:05 PM

If you have money to spare, flopping does not matter. If it only took 10 million a year to sign Melky, it would be a bargain. We disagree greatly on the requirement for fans to wait 6 or more years for a team to be competitive. I think there is no such requirement to being a good fan.

The Hicks trade was years ago, before this last contract for Lee. Not sure what this contract has to do with my point at all.

 

I understand you are all for the now, but come on.  Melky isn't going to get any better. While $10M might be worth it next year, how's it looking when he turns 34 and 35 in 4 and 5 years down the road?  He is an average AT BEST fielder right now, it's only going to get worse with age.  6 more years?  IMO this team will be competitive in 2016 and beyond.  That means after the cluster**** that was 2011, the rebuild in this situation would take 4 years, 2012 to 2015 to put together a competitive team.  That's not bad.

 

If you are talking about the Lee rumors in 2010 for Lee, then OK.  It would have taken more than Hicks, who was a Top 20 prospect at the time, and it would be a half year rental.  We would likely be looking at the same team right now without Hicks if they somehow pulled a trade like that.


#66 SwainZag

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:11 PM

I would have no problems signing Melky.Buxton just had a very serious brain injury and hurt both his wrists this year.Arcia has some big questions about his defense and contact.Rosario has been poor at AA this season and has off the field issue and Hicks has failed miserably both times he's tried it in MLB.None of those guys are guarantees and a couple are huge question marks.In fact I'd guess only 1 will have an average or better career. 

 

You also asked if I'd trade Hicks for Lee.In a heart beat.Doubly so if you can guarantee that Lee will be healthy next season.A mediocre at best OF or a chance at a true ace?Easy decision.

 

You would trade Hicks for Lee right now?  A 36 year old, who is injured and making $25M next year and a vesting option of $27.5M in 2016...with a $12.5M buyout.  Cliff has been a great pitcher in his career, but personally I want nothing to do with a 36+ year old arm making 25M+ for 2 seasons.  Give me the talented yet struggling OF 24 year old, especially considering the state of this team right now.

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#67 Mike Sixel

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:19 PM

So next year they will be competitive. I want to make sure I understand the timeline 6 out laid out before responding. And, I am not "all for the now", but I am also not "all for the wait until every prospect graduates to try to win bandwagon" either. I doubt anyone is really on that, but it reads like that at times.

The thread asked what I would do as GM for LF. I would sign Melky.
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#68 Oxtung

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:22 PM

You would trade Hicks for Lee right now?  A 36 year old, who is injured and making $25M next year and a vesting option of $27.5M in 2016...with a $12.5M buyout.  Cliff has been a great pitcher in his career, but personally I want nothing to do with a 36+ year old arm making 25M+ for 2 seasons.  Give me the talented yet struggling OF 24 year old, especially considering the state of this team right now.

 

I would.Hicks isn't going to make this team competitive.On the other hand if Lee returns to form next season our team looks a whole lot better.

 

Rotation:

Lee

Meyer

Hughes

Gibson

May/Nolasco

 

That has potential to be a playoff caliber rotation.Things would have to break right but it has the potential to carry the Twins to the playoffs.I'm not worried about the vesting option; if he pitches 200+ innings next season he must have been pretty damn good and I want him back for 2016.The Twins can easily afford him so the money isn't a problem.


#69 Willihammer

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:26 PM

I assume they backloaded because Lester and Cruz and whoever else they sign this offseason have bills to pay and they need the cap space to pay those guys now.

I fully expect them to be back in the hunt this time next year, just like they were in 2013 after finishing last in 2012.

Well, there's that.

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#70 SgtSchmidt11

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:38 PM

I assume they backloaded because Lester and Cruz and whoever else they sign this offseason have bills to pay and they need the cap space to pay those guys now.

I fully expect them to be back in the hunt this time next year, just like they were in 2013 after finishing last in 2012.

That must be the thought process.Perhaps they go this offseason and get Lester & another ace (Scherzer)?Add that to Cespedes and they have a better team than this last year's.

Edited by SgtSchmidt11, 22 August 2014 - 02:38 PM.


#71 DJL44

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:52 PM

I'd rather see them trade for an expensive outfielder than sign one of the free agent options. The Dodgers and Red Sox are loaded with expensive outfielders (ex Andre Ethier, Shane Victorino). Alex Rios is another option for a short-term fix. None of those guys would cost much in trade.


#72 SwainZag

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:58 PM

I'd rather see them trade for an expensive outfielder than sign one of the free agent options. The Dodgers and Red Sox are loaded with expensive outfielders (ex Andre Ethier, Shane Victorino). Alex Rios is another option for a short-term fix. None of those guys would cost much in trade.

 

I would much rather see a 1 rental rental in Victorino if there wasn't a major trade chip at his salary of $13M than get locked into 5 years of Melky at $10M+.

 

With the contract Eithier has, I really see no chance of him coming here in a trade.  

 

I don't see Texas picking up Rios's option, so he probably will be a FA.  


#73 THE DFC

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:49 PM

I would.Hicks isn't going to make this team competitive.On the other hand if Lee returns to form next season our team looks a whole lot better.

 

Rotation:

Lee

Meyer

Hughes

Gibson

May/Nolasco

 

That has potential to be a playoff caliber rotation.Things would have to break right but it has the potential to carry the Twins to the playoffs.I'm not worried about the vesting option; if he pitches 200+ innings next season he must have been pretty damn good and I want him back for 2016.The Twins can easily afford him so the money isn't a problem.

 

When we kept together a group of young, promising prospects, we rode them to 6 playoff appearances in 9 years and were continually about 1 player away from truly contending.  

 

As soon as we started relying on 30+ vets in free agency and trading our prospects, the team collapsed into what you see now.  

 

The idea of moving Aaron Hicks now at just 24-years-old (an age still younger than the breakout seasons of Hunter, Cuddyer, Gomez, Dozier, etc., etc.) when he's finally showing promise now to add a veteran pitcher at the very end of his career to a team that will still be mostly reliant on early 20s position players (Arcia, Vargas, Santana, Sano, Buxton, Rosario) is really just a recipe to top out prematurely and sputter back into irrelevance.  

 

Let's have some patience.  The team has been awful without promise for years now, yes, but now it's becoming awful with lots of promise.  And, next year, with another year of Hughes, Gibson, Dozier, Arcia, Vargas, Santana, Pinto, May, a resurgent Hicks and hopefully, the arrivals of Meyer, Sano, Buxton, Rosario and maybe Burdi, Berrios, Polanco, etc., that's probably a pretty average team with an absolutely insane amount of promise.

 

Again, the concept of tweaking that to get 5 more wins instead of being patient is, frankly, pretty silly.  

Edited by THE DFC, 22 August 2014 - 04:50 PM.

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#74 Oxtung

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 07:02 PM

When we kept together a group of young, promising prospects, we rode them to 6 playoff appearances in 9 years and were continually about 1 player away from truly contending.  

 

As soon as we started relying on 30+ vets in free agency and trading our prospects, the team collapsed into what you see now.  

 

The idea of moving Aaron Hicks now at just 24-years-old (an age still younger than the breakout seasons of Hunter, Cuddyer, Gomez, Dozier, etc., etc.) when he's finally showing promise now to add a veteran pitcher at the very end of his career to a team that will still be mostly reliant on early 20s position players (Arcia, Vargas, Santana, Sano, Buxton, Rosario) is really just a recipe to top out prematurely and sputter back into irrelevance.  

 

Let's have some patience.  The team has been awful without promise for years now, yes, but now it's becoming awful with lots of promise.  And, next year, with another year of Hughes, Gibson, Dozier, Arcia, Vargas, Santana, Pinto, May, a resurgent Hicks and hopefully, the arrivals of Meyer, Sano, Buxton, Rosario and maybe Burdi, Berrios, Polanco, etc., that's probably a pretty average team with an absolutely insane amount of promise.

 

Again, the concept of tweaking that to get 5 more wins instead of being patient is, frankly, pretty silly.  

I looked following Hicks' 2013 season at hitters that were similar in production and plate appearances and the list wasn't pretty.As in he was epically bad.As in he had one of the 100 worst rookie seasons since 1960.When you look at the rest of the list none of them made it.None.I haven't looked at where he would be on a list given his current statistics but he has been flat out awful for 2 seasons.I'm of the opinion that he is not and will never be a major league caliber player.Given that I would trade him in a heart beat if there was anything in return. 

 

You list the 2000's as a reason to keep him but the 2000's core also had an ace in Santana and a very good #2 in Radke.Tell me who fits that roll for next season? Perhaps Meyer, but that's expecting a lot, IMO.

 

YMMV of course.


#75 DocBauer

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:48 PM

To be fair, this thread is indeed what you would do as GM to address LF next season. As also stated, it is easily the one position on the team, and in the lineup, where one addition might/could actually make a difference.

It was never stated the Twins would be forced to overspend on a 4-6 year contract.

I don't oppose prospects for a young and talented LF option. Though I highly doubt the Twins are in the frame of mind to trade prospects, at this time, this impending year, to do so. And I concure. I'd hoard my young talent for at least one more season while rebuilding the club.

I like the idea of signing Melky. I also like Markakis if available. The FA market is not yet established, to be sure. There could be 1 year options to hang on for one more good year, or a make good year. And there can be a 30yo where a 3 year deal makes very much sense. I believe the Twins can/should/probably will make at least this one FA move.

Here's a monkey wrench to throw in to the mix. There is a nice article concerning Hicks, on another site, and what he has done this season after his demotion. Still young and very talented, he has absolutely raked at AA. He has continued to rake at AAA since his promotion there, with a week or so to go. I don't think there's much doubt that he's going to see additional additional ML time with a September promotion. What happens if he, forgetting raking, but hits and plays well with the Twins to finish the season?

I know his milb time is a small sample size, but so too is his ML sample size. But if he continues, does it skew the LF options for next year? Is Santana a LF option? Or is he truly destined to compete with Escobar at SS? Again, a monkey wrench to toss in.

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#76 kab21

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:23 AM

The fact is that the Twins need one steady OF'er next season since everyone else is question marks. 

 

Perhaps Aoki as a stop gap everywhere guy that is underrated and presumably fairly cheap.S

 

Seth Smith mashes RH'd pitching and could platoon with someone fairly cheaply.

 

I like the Victorino idea.

 

I don't have a problem with Melky or Markakis but think the contracts will get too long and would rather the Twins focused long guaranteed money elsewhere.if I had my choice the Twins would ante up Scherzer or Lester (or Ervin Santana) instead of splitting that money between a few positions and getting okay players.

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#77 Rosterman

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:40 PM

Right now, today, I would keep Escobar at short with Palenco in the wings. I would leave Santana in center and have Hicks play right or left. With Arcia the other spot. Schafer as the fourth outfielder. Hope Buxton is up in 2016. Vargas gets a full year. Parmelee bench and backup. Figure out what to do with Nolasco. Youwill have Pelfry disappearing after 2015. Lots of salary for finding a hole filler than for 2016. Third base is a problem if you move Plouffe to the outfield. Of course, it all depends on Hicks actually producing like a starter than the backup. Pinto needs to be groomed to catch, even if he starts 2015 at Rochester catching for Meyer and others who will come up sometime in 2016.

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#78 shs_59

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:36 PM

In response to others about my previous Andrew Cashner, Starling Marte Fetish. (going back to pg. 1)

 

What is in it for the Padres?Well, frankly did you just see what they got for Chase Headley? essentially nothing and they basically gave away Huston Street.....So you know they could use a solid-reliever . (their gm has recently stated , strangley enough, they were looking for relief help)

 

I'll revise it some. 1) Eduardo Nunez, Anthony Swarzak, Trevor May , Adam Brett Walker + PTBL

 

for Andrew Cashner and S. UTL Alexi Amarista(he can play CF in a pinch and all over the daimond)

 

Seeing Starling Marte has been playing a lot better here in August, I think the Pirates price on him just went back up to where it was last year (My guess is they would not move him at all, and rather be more willing to move Jose Tabata and Travis Snider)Effectively ending any interest we might of had there.

Twins Prospects? 1 S. Gonsalves  2. N. Gordon  3. Tyler Jay

4. A. Kirilloff  5. Romero, Fernando  6. Mejia, Alberto  7. K. Stewart

8.J.T. Chargois  9. Wells, Lac. 10. D. Palka  11. Wade, LaM. 12. Nic Burdi


#79 shs_59

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:39 PM

You could actually make a strong argument that that deal is far more risky and ill-advised for the Twins

 

As Cashner has not stayed healthy, and going from the NL to AL(senior circuit to the big big boys)He might have more of a Nolasco like transition that a Phil Hughes one..

 

But i'd love a

 

Hughes

Cashner

Gibson

Milone

Nolasco

 

rotation going into 2015, with Meyer in the Wings ace and Berrios the Cats' ace waiting in the wings.

Twins Prospects? 1 S. Gonsalves  2. N. Gordon  3. Tyler Jay

4. A. Kirilloff  5. Romero, Fernando  6. Mejia, Alberto  7. K. Stewart

8.J.T. Chargois  9. Wells, Lac. 10. D. Palka  11. Wade, LaM. 12. Nic Burdi


#80 WLFINN

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 04:13 PM

So your saying he's the cats ace huh?