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Promote Josmil Pinto?

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#31 jokin

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 04:59 PM

Not much. No d guys have limited value.

 

I'm not sure about that.  He's demonstrated an .895 OPS/150 OPS+ in AA/AAA, with outstanding plate discipline.  And of course, .813 OPS/126 OPS+ with the Twins. His D may always hold him back as a full-time catcher, but surely there would be teams lining up for a guy who projects as a part-time C/DH/LF with a potentially potent bat.


#32 Monkeypaws

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:14 PM

It sure makes a lot more sense to play Pinto in September than Fryer. Give him and Kurt 50-50 and give the kid some more valuable MLB experience. The Twins need to be more aggressive giving these kids a shot when the season has gone down the tubes. The games might be meaningless for the Twins, but not for their opponents.


#33 spycake

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 06:15 PM

Is it just me, or do the Twins not like Latin American players in the catcher position? Unless they are already established there from another org, like Henry Blanco...

#34 drjim

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:28 PM

I'm not sure about that.  He's demonstrated an .895 OPS/150 OPS+ in AA/AAA, with outstanding plate discipline.  And of course, .813 OPS/126 OPS+ with the Twins. His D may always hold him back as a full-time catcher, but surely there would be teams lining up for a guy who projects as a part-time C/DH/LF with a potentially potent bat.

 

He was asking about Vargas.

Papers...business papers.

#35 drjim

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:29 PM

It sure makes a lot more sense to play Pinto in September than Fryer. Give him and Kurt 50-50 and give the kid some more valuable MLB experience. The Twins need to be more aggressive giving these kids a shot when the season has gone down the tubes. The games might be meaningless for the Twins, but not for their opponents.

 

Fryer won't start a game once Pinto comes up in September. Not sure it will quite be 50-50 though.

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#36 DocBauer

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:57 PM

I believe there is absolutely room for Pinto, and his bat, on the club now and in the future.

I believe his role is that of backup C, (at least-pending), RHPH and sometimes DH as well.

Firstly, 2015 in particular is still fluid. I'm a big believer in Vargas and love his potential. Hopefully, his potential is NOW. But despite an impressive start, what if he's not ready yet for 2015 after pitchers make adjustments.

Second, every spot on a 25 man roster has the potential to help and be important. And bench roles usually revolve around two types. Catcher or not, some backups are excellent defensive players who fill in but aren't very good offensive players/hitters. The second type are offensive performers who can also fill in, but aren't necessarily very good defensive players. Neither type is right or wrong, just different. And neither hurts the team as long as not overly exposed. Pinto wasn't special, but wasn't bad, defensively in the minors, and didn't seem too bad to close out 2013. So with a little improvement, why not him as the backup catcher? There is no rule that says your backup C has to be a Butera type.

Thirdly, there can be injuries and regression. Both can lead to increased opportunity, though we don't wish for either one of them.

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#37 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 08:41 PM

Fryer won't start a game once Pinto comes up in September.

Promise? :)
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#38 Willihammer

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 10:12 PM

Seriously though, can anyone explain what the Twins are doing with Pinto? How does he fit into their plan? He is wrapping up his 9th minor league season. He's crushed the highest levels. He's even crushed MLB in his short time here.

 

TBH if I were in Pinto's shoes, I'd be getting kinda pissed

Edited by Willihammer, 20 August 2014 - 10:12 PM.


#39 Shane Wahl

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 11:24 PM

Seriously though, can anyone explain what the Twins are doing with Pinto? How does he fit into their plan? He is wrapping up his 9th minor league season. He's crushed the highest levels. He's even crushed MLB in his short time here.

 

TBH if I were in Pinto's shoes, I'd be getting kinda pissed

 

I agree completely. It is now just laughable to watch this Eric Fryer show while Pinto mashes in AAA. He doesn't need playing time "every day" he needs to be up facing big league pitching and working on catching big league pitchers.

Anyway, it would be nice to have 13 good position players. It seems like we as Twins fans have become complacent about the bench and the last 4-6 roster spots. The Twins finishing the season next year with bench options like Pinto and Plouffe? Yes, please.

 


#40 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 11:52 PM

... and if Rochester is in the playoffs, it will be even later.

 

 

agreed.

 

He stays with the Red Wings until their season is over. Then he comes up and he probably hits well and hopefully catches anytime the Twins even think of putting Fryer into a game. Pinto may be nearing the end of his career as a C, at least with Twins. Could be an interesting trade chip for a team looking for a backup catcher/DH. i would love to see the Twins have Pinto as a back-up catcher/bench bat/DH than Fryer, who provides essentially nothing.


#41 drjim

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 07:10 AM

Promise? :)

 

Barring injury.

Papers...business papers.

#42 spycake

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 11:28 AM

I believe there is absolutely room for Pinto, and his bat, on the club now and in the future.

Yes.  I think the Twins made a mistake in 2010 when they thought Ramos was expendable, and he was behind a HoF catcher.  Pinto will not be behind a HoF catcher, and in fact appears to have a complementary skill set to our starter.


#43 DJL44

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 12:50 PM

The Twins should be shutting down Suzuki in September. They need to keep him healthy for the next two seasons and he's on a pretty rigorous pace for games caught. Let Pinto catch over half the games and save the veteran for next April.

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#44 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 01:18 PM

The Twins should be shutting down Suzuki in September. They need to keep him healthy for the next two seasons and he's on a pretty rigorous pace for games caught. Let Pinto catch over half the games and save the veteran for next April.

 

There's really no reason not to do this.


#45 drjim

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 01:30 PM

The Twins should be shutting down Suzuki in September. They need to keep him healthy for the next two seasons and he's on a pretty rigorous pace for games caught. Let Pinto catch over half the games and save the veteran for next April.

 

If by "shutting down" you mean drop to 50ish/50ish split I think that makes sense, perhaps 60/40 Pinto. But they can't start benching guys for a month.

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#46 JB_Iowa

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 01:38 PM

If by "shutting down" you mean drop to 50ish/50ish split I think that makes sense, perhaps 60/40 Pinto. But they can't start benching guys for a month.

 

Especially since I think he may have another "plate appearances" financial incentive to reach.

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#47 Kirby_waved_at_me

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 01:44 PM

Yeah, I think Suzuki has another bonus on the line with his next game played and then another if he makes it to 115 starts:

 

http://blogs.twincit...-bonus-package/

 

On Monday night against the Astros, Suzuki made his 85th start of the season behind the plate, triggering a $100,000 bonus. He would receive the same amount with his 95th start, followed by bonuses of $150,000 apiece for making 105 and 115 starts.

Edited by Kirby_waved_at_me, 21 August 2014 - 01:44 PM.


#48 birdwatcher

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 01:47 PM

Impossible question: what would Vargas fetch on the trade block?

Probably someone a lot better than Pinto. :)


#49 birdwatcher

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 01:52 PM

Is it just me, or do the Twins not like Latin American players in the catcher position? Unless they are already established there from another org, like Henry Blanco...

No, spycake, it's just you they don't like at the catcher position.


#50 birdwatcher

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:01 PM

Pinto did OK hitting for the Twins this spring. However, his OPS for April was .902, May only .600 and (SSS) June only .412.  So, after April he wasn't very good.  The sporadic use of him as a catcher made things even worse, because he struggled defensively.  I thought it was time for him to be optioned when it happened and still think that was the right call.  Suzuki has had a banner year and deserves to be the regular catcher.  The return to health of Arcia and Willingham and the addition of Kendrys and then Kennys made it all but impossible for Pinto to get at-bats when not catching. 

 

He's the best hitter at Rochester and his approach to hitting should make him a fine major league hitter, but he has to be a better receiver than he showed this spring. 

 

I have been in Pinto's camp since he was in Double A.  I think the problems with his catching are fixable.  I wonder if a recall could be a showcasing effort to perhaps net something for him, if the Twins don't feel like he is a fit with their organization any more.

Those offensive numbers support the decision to send him back to AAA. But I think it's at least somewhat encouraging that Pinto is catching in Rochester, an indication that they're hardly giving up on him as a catcher despite this being his 9th year at it as a pro.

 

My hunch though is he'll always be a bad catcher. Hopefully more Ryan Doumit than Matty.


#51 spycake

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:34 PM

No, spycake, it's just you they don't like at the catcher position.

They could at least give me a month's worth of PAs the rest of the year to find out. :)

 

Seriously, I do wonder if they have a preference for English-first young signal-callers.  They were quick to deal Ramos and thus far quick to move on from Pinto, and they haven't really had any other young Latin American catchers that I can recall.  (Henry Blanco, as I mentioned, was already established... Rene Rivera was briefly here too, although that time is best forgotten :) )

 

They haven't had much of a Latin American presence on the mound recently either, so if the pitchers have some qualitative say in choosing their receivers (i.e. Perkins preferring Suzuki?), that could be part of it too.


#52 DJL44

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 07:57 AM

If by "shutting down" you mean drop to 50ish/50ish split I think that makes sense, perhaps 60/40 Pinto. But they can't start benching guys for a month.

 

I agree. I wouldn't bench any starter unless they're hurt. If the financial incentive is the issue the Twins could just give Suzuki the money anyway. They need him in April 2015, not September 2014.


#53 RealTwinsFan357

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:16 AM

I really don't like the idea of Pinto in the outfield at the same time as Arcia, but there may be ways to get his bat in the line up without sacrificing the little outfield defense we have. I propose he scrape together starts from several different places:

 

1) Pinto acts as the backup catcher to Suzuki, gets two starts/week behind the plate (over a whole season this acconts for roughly 50 games).

2) Mauer will probably sit out at least 20 games, during these games Vargas plays 1B and Pinto DHs.

3) Pinto and Arcia get placed in a platoon, either directly or indirectly. Although I think he's improved a little bit, Arcia still does not seem capable of putting up solid numbers against LHP. Rather than force Arcia to stay in the lineup and struggle I think the Twins are better off putting either Pinto or Mauer (obviously defense would be better with Mauer) in RF against LHP. Depending on who's in RF, this puts either Mauer or Vargas at first with either Vargas or Pinto DHing. This part is a total guess, but say 25-30% of games played are started by a lefty, this accounts for a little over 40 games started by Pinto per year (we'll say 40 as there would probably be some overlap with the other two options.

 

All in all, we are looking at Pinto starting 110 games in a season, which would definitely be better than the playing time he was seeing this season. The only problem is Gardy would never go for this without a third catcher, so either the Twins need to get a new manager who doesn't have an irrational fear of playing both catchers in the same game, or we would need a third catcher on the roster. As much as I'm opposed to three-catcher rosters, I prefer them to 13-man bullpens...


#54 Willihammer

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:52 AM

Its not that easy. Pitchers have preferences at catcher, and by some accounts there are guys on this staff that prefer throwing to Suzuki. So its natural for a catcher's off days to line up with one or maybe two pitchers (right now that appears to be Trevor May and sometimes Gibson). Obviously this will not always lineup perfectly with the handedness of the opposing pitcher or the rest days of your first baseman or right fielder.

#55 spycake

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:08 AM

Getting Mauer some reps in a corner outfield spot (while it is open anyway) would be the easiest solution.

 

I get that he and the Twins want Mauer to be that everyday, plus defensive first basement that Morneau was, but honestly that's not very valuable (maybe a couple runs a year?).

 

Pretty sure some simple positional flexibility outweighs that.

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#56 iTwins

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:03 AM

Many minor league catchers switch to another position.  Do you think that his defense elsewhere also wouldn't be close to acceptable, or that his bat won't "play" anywhere but at an up-the-middle defensive position?

 

I think his defense wouldn't play where the Twins could use him. He certainly could be a player at 1B, but with Mauer and Vargas, I don't think he gets a shot there with the Twins. Maybe he slots into LF, but I just don't see him being an acceptable defender in the outfield.

 

That's why I'm adding the qualifier - with the Twins - I think he's got a Major League bat, but unless he's a catcher, I don't see that bat fitting with the Twins, simply because he could be a "man without a position".

 

Of course, a lot can change in short order. A Mauer injury or Vargas developing a hole in his swing changes the whole dynamic and maybe gives Pinto a place to play. Luckily, the Twins don't HAVE to make a decision on Pinto for a while. (He's not out of options, or on the fringe of the 40 man).