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Positional OPS and WAR

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#21 Thrylos

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 03:10 PM

Unlike OPS, WAR is a cumulative stat.So if Escobar was given the SS PAs wasted on Florimon or otherwise, he would be in the 2.0s easily... Hard to compare WARs with different PAs in this types of equations. Might be interesting to extrapolate WARs for 600 PAs and then compare players in the same position.

 

Yeah.Escobar (quietly) has become one of the best MLB Shortstops out there.

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#22 ashburyjohn

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 03:52 PM

since DHs don't play defense.

Yeah they do.The guy you pencil into the lineup there keeps you from DHing the next worst fielder in your lineup. :)

 

/ kidding... or am I?

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#23 Sconnie

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 05:35 PM

Kevin Correia is very good at baseball. He's not very good compared to the rest of the league, but his abilitty to stay healthy and put up not god awful numbers is valuable.
 
It's not just good and bad players.
 
I think Kevin Correia, as much as I am calling for his rotation spot to go to someone else, is providng the Twins value. He's not elite by any stretch of imagination, but having him go out there every 5 days and give you a chance to win 3 out of 5 starts is valuable. yes, he leads the league in losses, but the Twins offense is terrible and pitcher wins are dumb (more or less).
 
You have to take the upside on an injury prone player, but that also means having someone else who is ready to step in down in AAA or somehwere else on the roster.
 
I don't know. It's nearly 2am here in Seattle. Can't quite get my mind to push out thoughts correctly.
 
You don't always have a superstar or player with high-upside to play. Sometimes Kevin Correia is the best option, even if it's not a very good one.

Having a Correia as the 5 th start

Yup those were the stats but what was the value you speak of?In order for it to have value the Twins must have gained something.I don't see anything gained.I don't see the Twins are better off because of his 31 starts.

the value gained in this instance is risk aversion. The alternatives were much higher risk and same if not much lower reward

#24 Oxtung

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 06:53 PM

Is this the "part of the future" argument?I generally agree that should be a consideration, but it doesn't seem realisitic to think that every single rostered player is going to be under 30 and have 4-6 years of team control.

 

A case can be made that the Twins gained not having to rush their SP prospects more than they wanted to and were able to more closely follow the development path they desired.Some here obviously don't agree with many of those paths and want every prospect here now, but to each their own. 

 

One could also make the case that the Twins gained not being forced to give more starts to AAA/AAAA filler.Sure, one of them could turn into something but it's nearly as likely to think Correia could generate value with a career year (while being significantly more reliable).

 

 

 

Having a Correia as the 5 th startthe value gained in this instance is risk aversion. The alternatives were much higher risk and same if not much lower reward

 


You both make valid points from the Twins FO perspectives.I just disagree with them.I think the two big kickers here for me are first, he was signed to a two year contract, and second, there were other better options (no matter what you were looking for) available.Now not all those options panned out (though several did) but that is hind sight and irrelevant.

 

Regardless, nothing stated here makes me think signing below average veterans is a good idea.


#25 drjim

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 07:47 PM


You both make valid points from the Twins FO perspectives. I just disagree with them. I think the two big kickers here for me are first, he was signed to a two year contract, and second, there were other better options (no matter what you were looking for) available. Now not all those options panned out (though several did) but that is hind sight and irrelevant.

Regardless, nothing stated here makes me think signing below average veterans is a good idea.


I think we have had this debate before - but how is it irrelevant that the Twins signed the guy who stayed healthy and actually made his starts and pitched at a slightly above replacement level? How is that not part of the analysis in deciding who to sign?

It would be disappointing going forward, now that the Twins have 3 guys who should be #3 type pitchers in the rotation for next year, for them to sign a guy like Correia. Bit considering the ugly state of pitching in the organization going into 2013 it made some sense to have a guy like Corrria, especially considering the alternatives at the time.

The best part about Correia is he helped bridge these two years and now the Twins can move on.
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#26 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 06:20 AM

Yeah.Escobar (quietly) has become one of the best MLB Shortstops out there.

So quietly that the Twins don't even know it, as Nunez seems to be pulling down 33-40% of the starts at short.
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