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Discussion point for the future in LF

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#31 alarp33

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:18 AM

Brock, I usually agree with you.

 

However, maybe part of a young ballplayer's progress is to become better, no matter the level. 

 

He doesn't profile as a corner guy per se, but given his relatively tender age, he is kicking ass right now.

 

Are you familiar with BABIP?  Santana's is currently .401.  

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#32 Winston Smith

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:33 AM

Some free agents that are at least mediocre and play semi decent outfield in Colby Rasmus and Nick Markakis.

 

Yasmani Tomas is a Cuban free agent that would only cost money, only money that made me laugh.

 

Hunter could be alright for a final year back home. He's likely going to hit 20 hr this year. He'd be  a big upgrade over what we've been getting from Willy.

May all our prospects be All Stars and the beer be free.


#33 mike wants wins

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:39 AM

Actually, Josh and Torii are pretty much the same player right now, from what I can tell on Fangraphs. I don't get why that seems like a good idea in LF anymore

 

*Torii actually has a negative WAR, and Josh a positive one. I'd guess, guess, that is due to Josh not having enough fielding opportunities for him to accumulate enough bad defense yet.....

 

Though, in looking at the comparison chart, Josh has been equal to or better than Torii on offense nearly every year, except the year he missed due to injury.

Lighten up Francis....

#34 ericchri

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:27 PM

I consider a legitimate corner OF bat to be a guy in the .775-.825 OPS range.

 

And I'm still skeptical that Santana can maintain that pace going forward. If he can, great. If he can't, he needs to stick at an up-the-middle position to reach max value.

I'm nowhere near the guy who knows how to try and find this information online, but I'd be willing to wager that a good chunk of major league corner outfielders don't meet that criteria anymore.  Doesn't mean you shouldn't hope for it, but you may not find it very easily.  5 years ago, yeah, today, not so much.

Edited by ericchri, 05 August 2014 - 01:28 PM.


#35 spycake

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:48 PM

I'm nowhere near the guy who knows how to try and find this information online, but I'd be willing to wager that a good chunk of major league corner outfielders don't meet that criteria anymore.  Doesn't mean you shouldn't hope for it, but you may not find it very easily.  5 years ago, yeah, today, not so much.

It's like a 115-135 OPS+ range in 2014.  Was more like 105-125 back in 2010.

 

Fangraphs says that OPS range would rank 14-25 among qualified OF (including CF) so far in 2014.


#36 Thegrin

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 02:07 PM

If Parmalee finishes the year with an OPS+ of above 100 (currently 103), he is your answer to Left Field. This assumes that Arcia will also have an OPS+ above 90 (currently 98).  There are 2 months to play and the Twins will be facing many more inferior pitchers for the rest of the schedule. It will be interesting to see what the final results will be..


#37 jokin

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 03:10 PM

The future is now.....Jordan Shafer starts tonight in LF.

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#38 Kwak

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 03:25 PM

Next season's LF is definitely undecided.  However, many different options exist and a patoon could be used.  I don't belive Arcia has a position cast in steel.  I am not convinced Sano's position is 3B--OF may be where that talent  is utilized. In short, many teams have "compromised" for a hitter to play LF, through the years the Twins have, and said teams have been successful despite said "compromise".


#39 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:27 PM

Next season it will likely be Parmelee. Both Parm and Plouffe will get another year to audition so to speak. Both were basically ML average this year. Sano is going to push Plouffe as soon as late next year, at which point, I suspect TR is going to have to choose between one or the other. If neither really break out in 2015, then I'm guessing they get a free agent.

#40 kab21

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:57 PM

I think the Twins hope Polanco is the future SS, but want to give Escobar every opportunity to stick there for the next 1-2 years (if not permanently), because they like his glove more than Santana's or Nunez's.

I think they believe Santana is a defensive liability and would rather he work on those issues in the minor leagues if not for the fiasco in center field this year. And I think Gardy probably lobbied to keep Santana around (even after the Fuld pickup) because he is in love with his skillset - 1. fast, 2, switch hitter, 3. decent bunter. I think the Twins FO is ok because Santana was/is good enough to stop the bleeding in CF and maybe they started to see potential for a Bonifacio/super-utility type player down the line.

Please elaborate on these defensive issues.  Santana has always been regarded as an excellent defender in the minors.  We aren't talking about Plouffe here.  Plouffe had defensive question marks his entire MiLB career.  Many thought Santana could stick at SS for awhile in the majors due to his glove alone.

 

The issue that I see happening next year is that they continue to roll with Santana in CF and at that point he will have spent two years off of SS.  It's difficult to move back to a demanding position like SS if/when Escobar does a Florimon impression and Polanco takes longer than expected or doesn't do well in AA/AAA.

I look forward to the day that a pitching prospect is truly blocked by good pitchers.


#41 DocBauer

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:10 PM

I think the game of baseball in generally has regressed to what it was through my experiences in the 70's 80's and early 90's before the steroid era saw weak hitting SS's (Bordick?) hitting 20+ homers. It's reverting back to a game of pitching, speed and defense and situational hitting. A game where 20 HR's is considered good.

And note, when I use terms like regressed and reverting, I don't mean it in a negative fashion. Quite the contrary, I mean it's the beautiful game it's always been instead of a slugfest with what seems like professionals with aluminum bats.

In that world, I DO think Santana providing speed and defense, speed on the bases, gapper power, could be a very valuable and exciting player. That is not to say that will be his ultimate fate, just saying.

Also, when I used Cuddyer and Hunter as FA possibilities for LF in the short term, I did state they were examples, not necessarily the only options. Buxton just won't be ready from day one. SOMEONE has to play LF, and it's the easiest position for the Twins to provide a lineup upgrade with a productive bat.

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

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#42 DocBauer

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:22 PM

In regard to LF long term, in addition to the Santana possibility, you can't discount Walker, though he's a year or so away.

But I don't discount Rosario. This year has been a bit of a throw-away unfortunately. With a strong winter, he might head straight to Rochester next season. Right now, odds are he begins at New Britain before a probably early promotion.

In my opinion, with a little more personal discipline and experience, he is a legit .270-.280 hitter at worst, and very likely a .290-.300 bat with at least a decent OB who is a defensive asset in LF who can cover CF when needed, his original position. I don't know if he has the instincts and pure speed to ever be a big SB threat, but double-digits should be there. He has the natural stroke, speed and power to be a solid doubles hitter with some triples sprinkled in. Can he ever be a 20 HR hitter like was a few years ago? I don't know. But then again, he's young and been promoted pretty quickly. Given a chance to play every day at one level eventually, I could easily see consistent double-digit HR production. I think the natural power is there. And overall, he could be a very valuable, versatile performer.

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

--Lou Brown


#43 Willihammer

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:32 PM

Please elaborate on these defensive issues.  Santana has always been regarded as an excellent defender in the minors.  We aren't talking about Plouffe here.  Plouffe had defensive question marks his entire MiLB career.  Many thought Santana could stick at SS for awhile in the majors due to his glove alone.

The knock on Santana that I heard over and over going into ST is that he rushed plays, causing him to commit errors on routine ground balls. And actually if you look at his minor league defensive stats, he committed more errors on a per chance basis than Escobar, Polanco, or even Plouffe.

 

More importantly, if the Twins thought so highly of Santana's glove then he would be starting at SS everyday. Gardenhire has always played who he believes is the best glove at SS, providing the guy can hit anything north of .600

Edited by Willihammer, 05 August 2014 - 09:32 PM.


#44 Brandon

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 09:17 AM

The knock on Santana that I heard over and over going into ST is that he rushed plays, causing him to commit errors on routine ground balls. And actually if you look at his minor league defensive stats, he committed more errors on a per chance basis than Escobar, Polanco, or even Plouffe.

 

More importantly, if the Twins thought so highly of Santana's glove then he would be starting at SS everyday. Gardenhire has always played who he believes is the best glove at SS, providing the guy can hit anything north of .600

He even played Florimon with an OPS south of .600.


#45 LaBombo

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 06:15 PM

He even played Florimon with an OPS south of .600.

And not just south of the border, down Mexico way.  It was more like... Equatorial Guinea.

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#46 stringer bell

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 07:23 PM

He even played Florimon with an OPS south of .600.

Florimon's OPS when he played regularly (2013) was just north of .600 (.611).

#47 LaBombo

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 06:45 PM

Florimon's OPS when he played regularly (2013) was just north of .600 (.611).

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