Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Article: Twins Claim Jordan Schafer from Braves

jordan schafer
  • Please log in to reply
122 replies to this topic

#81 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 18,670 posts

Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:19 PM

The flip side of that, of course, is that due to their record, the 2014 Twins shouldn't really care if Parmelee has to play CF for 50 PA over 2 months, or Hermann/Polanco/Escobar/Nunez/Arcia etc.  And in less than a month, they can all be on the active roster at the same time too.

 

Yeah, that's true... But I don't blame the Twins for picking up a CF option if Santana goes down with injury. Things would get really ugly if you had to roll out that crew in center for two or three weeks.

 

Either way, I just don't see any reason why anyone would be excited about or against this move. It's mostly irrelevant.

  • ChiTownTwinsFan, Mike Sixel and goulik like this

#82 old nurse

old nurse

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,066 posts

Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:34 PM

The benefit of Schafer is that you don't care if he rots on the bench and receives 50 PAs over two months.

Gardenhire tends to use all of his players regularly. The option to have someone at the end of the bench just sitting there fades quickly. How many games did Bartlet get as the 25th man? (Yes I am too lazy to look that up)


#83 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 11,776 posts

Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:38 PM

My point was that the Twins would have to carry him all winter and offer him arbitration in order to have him in spring training.  For a team rebuilding, they should either figure out he's part of the future the rest of 2014 or let him go.  It doesn't make sense to clog the 40-man.  I have a feeling if they cut him loose, he'd have plenty of interest because he has a legit MLB skill on the basepaths.

I don't know -- for someone else to claim Schafer from the Twins, they'd have to give him a roster spot through the winter and arbitration too.  I don't see that happening for a 28 year old "proven" pinch runner, particularly if he doesn't inspire the Twins to keep him on the 40-man roster after this 2014 audition.

 

And if he clears waivers, he's pretty much up for grabs as a non-roster minor league invite to spring training, Twins included.


#84 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 11,776 posts

Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:45 PM

Gardenhire tends to use all of his players regularly. The option to have someone at the end of the bench just sitting there fades quickly. How many games did Bartlet get as the 25th man? (Yes I am too lazy to look that up)

Bartlett played 3 out of 6 games, but no starts and only 4 PA.  And his last 3 PA came in an early-game emergency appearance, subbing for an injured Willingham in the 2nd inning.

 

That's basically been Schafer's usage in 2014 too (pinch runner, pinch hit for the pitcher, etc.), averaging less than 1 PA per team game.


#85 biggentleben

biggentleben

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,573 posts

Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:52 PM

I don't know -- for someone else to claim Schafer from the Twins, they'd have to give him a roster spot through the winter and arbitration too.  I don't see that happening for a 28 year old "proven" pinch runner, particularly if he doesn't inspire the Twins to keep him on the 40-man roster after this 2014 audition.

 

And if he clears waivers, he's pretty much up for grabs as a non-roster minor league invite to spring training, Twins included.

 

True, but he was claimed by one of the first teams eligible to claim him this time.  He would have a good chance of being claimed by someone as a 5th outfielder/pinch runner type.  The Braves needed him to be more, and he wasn't able to be that.

Editor at PuckettsPond.com and Co-Editor at CallToThePen.com, come check them out!

 


#86 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 11,776 posts

Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:27 PM

True, but he was claimed by one of the first teams eligible to claim him this time. He would have a good chance of being claimed by someone as a 5th outfielder/pinch runner type. The Braves needed him to be more, and he wasn't able to be that.


Midseason waiver claims are easier, there just isn't much opportunity cost to use the roster spot temporarily.

November 2012, he was waived and almost every NL team passed on him. And he was barely a year removed from being part of the Bourn trade then, and actually could have been outrighted to AAA if he cleared waivers.

I am highly skeptical that anyone will have room for an older, more limited, more expensive, and less flexible player just before free agency and the Rule 5 draft.
  • jorgenswest likes this

#87 biggentleben

biggentleben

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,573 posts

Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:13 PM

Midseason waiver claims are easier, there just isn't much opportunity cost to use the roster spot temporarily.

November 2012, he was waived and almost every NL team passed on him. And he was barely a year removed from being part of the Bourn trade then, and actually could have been outrighted to AAA if he cleared waivers.

I am highly skeptical that anyone will have room for an older, more limited, more expensive, and less flexible player just before free agency and the Rule 5 draft.

 

Part of why he lasted so long in 2012 was that he had no options left, so any team that claimed him would have to keep him on the major league team, so it's a bit disingenuous to infer he lasted a long time because of talent.  I don't disagree that he's just as likely to clear waivers this offseason as he is to be claimed, but I do think on a subjective view that someone will give him a shot even then, especially with a whole offseason to fix what they believe ails him.

 

Of course, what really ails him is that he has two strikes from PED and drugs of abuse and never recovered well from a wrist injury suffered after a very positive start to his 2009 debut season (ruining the celebration of the division rival Phillies following their 2008 World Series victory with a home run to lead off the season). His wrist has never gotten better, and he can't risk the drugs that helped him get where he was.  Guys like that, though, seem to get more chances than a guy who simply never produced at 100% health.

Editor at PuckettsPond.com and Co-Editor at CallToThePen.com, come check them out!

 


#88 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 13,240 posts

Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:30 PM

Yeah, that's true... But I don't blame the Twins for picking up a CF option if Santana goes down with injury. Things would get really ugly if you had to roll out that crew in center for two or three weeks.

 

Either way, I just don't see any reason why anyone would be excited about or against this move. It's mostly irrelevant.

 

I'm a little excited because at least this wasn't a burned out former Twin with no upside.  Baby steps.

  • Mike Sixel likes this

#89 Pius Jefferson

Pius Jefferson

    Master of the Obvious

  • Members
  • 830 posts

Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:03 PM

A part of me gets a feeling there's going to be a Jordan Schafer released thread before the end of the year. 

  • biggentleben likes this

Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong.


#90 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 11,776 posts

Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:37 AM

Part of why he lasted so long in 2012 was that he had no options left, so any team that claimed him would have to keep him on the major league team, so it's a bit disingenuous to infer he lasted a long time because of talent.  I don't disagree that he's just as likely to clear waivers this offseason as he is to be claimed, but I do think on a subjective view that someone will give him a shot even then, especially with a whole offseason to fix what they believe ails him.

I didn't mean to infer he lasted a long time on waivers in 2012 due to (lack of) talent alone.  In fact, I noted that his roster status situation was actually BETTER in November 2012 than it is now -- he still had less than 3 years service time, so someone could have claimed him and tried to pass him through waivers again to assign him outright to AAA (much like Hendriks this past offseason, or Parmelee, Worley, etc. this past spring).  Now, a claiming team has no alternative to guaranteeing him a 40-man spot the whole winter, a 25-man spot in the spring, and a ~$1.5 mil arb salary (excepting letting him become a free agent again).

 

Letting him pass through waivers this offseason, become a free agent, then trying to sign him to a minor league deal if interested, offers a TON more flexibility for the team.  He may still have interested suitors, but I'm not sure anyone would be willing to surrender that flexibility for a 28 y.o. pinch runner.

 

 

Guys like that, though, seem to get more chances than a guy who simply never produced at 100% health.

Agreed, and that's how he's spent 6 years on 40-man rosters and accumulated 4.6 years of MLB service time despite a career 68 OPS+ and negative defensive WAR (plus a career .571 OPS at AAA to boot).  But there's a limit to chances without any kind of production, and I think getting DFA'd midseason just shy of one's 28th birthday is a pretty clear indicator that your guaranteed MLB roster spot days are over.

Edited by spycake, 05 August 2014 - 06:39 AM.


#91 biggentleben

biggentleben

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,573 posts

Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:00 AM

Schafer didn't have options, though, so he would have had to pass through the waivers.  That hurt his stock because if he did have options, he would have been highly desirable, but spending a year-plus on the MLB DL took away some options.

Editor at PuckettsPond.com and Co-Editor at CallToThePen.com, come check them out!

 


#92 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 11,776 posts

Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:05 AM

Schafer didn't have options, though, so he would have had to pass through the waivers.  That hurt his stock because if he did have options, he would have been highly desirable, but spending a year-plus on the MLB DL took away some options.

I know.  But he still had less than 3 years service time back then (meaning he could be outrighted once without his consent if he passed through waivers).

 

I am guessing that had his former drafting team not claimed him in Nov. 2012 (and at least 12 other NL teams passed on him), he may have entered the Alex Burnett / Liam Hendriks waiver vortex, where a few teams exchange claims on him and soon after try to pass him through waivers again so they can remove him from the roster but outright him to AAA.

 

My point has been that he's in an even worse spot now (from a team's perspective): not only is he without options, he can reject any outright assignment and become a free agent (not to mention he's 2 years older and no better on the field).  Teams hate to lock in guys like that to the 40-man roster if they don't have to, particularly if they are also arb-eligible.  Scott Diamond was in a similar spot this past winter but at least he was still pre-arb.  Emilio Bonifacio is a far more useful/valuable player and even he cleared waivers and signed a minor league deal last winter.

 

I'll drop it now, but suffice to say, barring a strong finish to 2014, I doubt Schafer gets claimed this winter.


#93 DocBauer

DocBauer

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,645 posts

Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:45 PM

Oh my.

He's a fill in player to keep a bench spot warm for now after the Fuld trade. He costs nothing but money for the rest of the season...what's left of it.

He was a top prospect at one time. I've mentioned the Twins actually signing a quality CF/4th OF candidate for next season, along with a possible milb contract Rochester option for depth. Possibly not necessary with Hicks and Rosario any longer.

What if this kid actually hits, or is signed to a milb deal and does well at Rochester as a fill in player?

Again, this is just a flyer and fill-in player, not a big option.

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

--Lou Brown


#94 old nurse

old nurse

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,066 posts

Posted 06 August 2014 - 04:53 AM

I'm a little excited because at least this wasn't a burned out former Twin with no upside.  Baby steps.

A K% of 26.6 % at the major league level. Didn't tabulate the AA level.


#95 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 13,240 posts

Posted 06 August 2014 - 05:48 AM

A K% of 26.6 % at the major league level. Didn't tabulate the AA level.

 

You mean via waivers we didn't pick up an unblemished future superstar!  I'm aghast!


#96 jimbo92107

jimbo92107

    SeƱor Member

  • Members
  • 3,550 posts
  • LocationSan Diego

Posted 06 August 2014 - 07:44 AM

I can't say this is a bad move because it might mean less SSs in the outfield.

Perhaps Schafer will click with our hitting coaches and bat a little better. If not, say goodbye and send him away.

He's stolen a lot of bases, so he'll be a great pinch-run option.

 

I do wonder who we'll send down to AAA. Colabello maybe?

Exactly. Schafer is a low-risk temp defensively in the OF. Excellent pinch runner, base stealer. And if Bruno can find the magic words to make him a .250 hitter, he could become a semi-regular player. Otherwise, he's gone next season after Hicks learns to have a plan at the plate, or if some other OF in AA or AAA can hit well enough to promote.

 

Meanwhile, Schafer clearly does NOT have a plan at the plate. Not a good one, anyway. I saw him stand there and get struck out on 3 pitches from Hahn. That was not a plan, that was a guy that had no idea what to do, so he just stood there. Heck, I could do that, except I'd be leaping backwards and crapping my pants with every pitch... Those guys throw hard!

Edited by jimbo92107, 06 August 2014 - 07:54 AM.

  • Mike Sixel and Hosken Bombo Disco like this

Baseball is easy. Just watch!


#97 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,209 posts

Posted 06 August 2014 - 05:20 PM

I'm guessing that Schafer is a fallback option and won't get much in the way of playing time. He's the kind of guy you stash at the back of the bench and forget about until you need him, if you need him at all.

 

Small sample size, I know (2 games), but it appears Schaefer is our starting LF'er, not the guy described above. 


#98 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 18,670 posts

Posted 06 August 2014 - 05:42 PM

Small sample size, I know (2 games), but it appears Schaefer is our starting LF'er, not the guy described above. 

 

Eh, Gardy wants to see what he has in Schafer. I expected him to get a few starts early on.


#99 ScottyB

ScottyB

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 718 posts

Posted 06 August 2014 - 06:10 PM

Here's great news - Rockies have DFA'd Jason Pridie!!!!!Maybe he's comin' back. ;)

Edited by ScottyB, 06 August 2014 - 06:11 PM.

  • LaBombo likes this

#100 jorgenswest

jorgenswest

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,257 posts

Posted 06 August 2014 - 06:35 PM

Eh, Gardy wants to see what he has in Schafer. I expected him to get a few starts early on.

Is there any significance to his performance in a few games? Shouldn't there be enough games in which to see Schafer play? Shouldn't Gardy already know?

I don't doubt your reasoning Brock. I am only concerned that his play the last two months will somehow take precedence over the last 4 years. An OK 100 plate appearances might stop the Twins from looking for a different solution.

Edited by jorgenswest, 06 August 2014 - 06:35 PM.




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: jordan schafer