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Article: Should the Twins Consider a Six-Man Rotation?

tommy milone trevor may ricky nolasco phil hughes logan darnell
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#21 Linus

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 10:54 AM

To the people who want Pino and Johnson DFA'd...

These guys are the depth for our starting pitching. Starting pitchers get hurt. Look how many teams in the MLB have hurt starters. There is no reason to DFA these two guys. They should be in AAA during 2015 so we can use them if/probably when a starter gets hurt.

 

However, I agree with dumping Correia and Burton. Neither will be here in 2015, so there's no point to be here now. At this point, Correia is blocking our young starters. Pino and Johnson aren't blocking them because they can be sent down at any time. The only thing blocking May and Meyer is the person who could call them up.

 

 

This is spot on - its always good / necessary to have depth at AAA in the form of experienced starters that can take a few spot starts for the big league club in case of injury.Does not mean they are at all in the long term plans for the big club's rotation.

 

Having said that, Corriea needs to be moved now, take whateever you can get. - same with Burton.Milone, Meyer and May for the rest of the year.


#22 GoGonzoJournal

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:13 AM

I wouldn't have minded if the Twins went with a six-man rotation the whole season. Maybe the extra day off between starts would have kept Pelfrey or Nolasco off the DL, and Deduno could keep making starts instead of throwing wild pitches with runners on in a relief role.


#23 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:52 AM

A six man rotation could be the answer for a while. We have a lot of healthy guys who can make a case to be starting. Only thing is getting Meyer's starts in August before his inning quota. Or bullpen. I wouldn't mind seeing Meyer debut in a tie game in the 7th or 8th either -- a high pressure situation but without any postseason positioning at stake. 

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#24 Thegrin

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:10 PM

I hate that Logan Darnell gets a start tonight. 

I would hate the extra game between starts for Hughes and Gibson. 

Although I didn't like the signing of Correia and hated watching his labored starts.He is what was advertised.He was a solid #5 starter. 

Hughes, Gibson, Milone, Pino and Johnson is good enough. to finish it out.

 

We just had 3 quality starts and one win against light-hitting KC.The problem is with the bats, not the arms.


#25 spycake

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:30 PM

We just had 3 quality starts and one win against light-hitting KC.The problem is with the bats, not the arms.

Royals series aside, we have a team OPS+ of 92 on the season, and a team ERA+ of 94.  There are problems on both sides of the ball.

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#26 nater79a

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:59 PM

Does anyone know if there's such a thing as an "injury settlement" in the major league baseball CBA if a player calls it a career in the middle of a contract?  I know there is in football.  Thinking in terms of Pelfrey.


#27 spycake

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:15 PM

Alex Meyer has had terrible control and command most of the year and yet put up very strong strikeout numbers and ERA.

Seth, I love your content here, but you keep exaggerating Meyer's issues at AAA, in comparison to other pitchers.  "Terrible" control and command?

 

AAA strike percentage, 2014:

Pino 64%

May 64%

Meyer 62%

Darnell 62%

Johnson 61%

 

For comparison, MLB strike percentage, 2014:

Hughes 73%

Nolasco 63%

Correia 62%

Deduno 62%

Gibson 61%

 

Terrible is Pelfrey at 55%, or perhaps Liriano at 57% back in 2011.  Almost every starter in the league is between 60-66%.

 

 

Meyer's BB/9 this year is a career high, and about 25% above league average (and K/9 about 40% above average), but even that's a bit unfair to him due to the pitch limit he's had most of the season.  Dude's had 11 starts with 0-2 ER allowed this year where he's been pulled with a pitch count around 80 or lower, and his BB/9 in those starts is 3.3, below league average.  Basically, the pitch limit gives us the full effect of his poor/wild starts, and limits the quality of his good ones.  If he was permitted to continue pitching in these starts like a normal pitcher, he would almost certainly have a walk rate right around his career (and league) average.

 

Nothing about Meyer's season deserves the adjective "terrible" except possibly his lack of an MLB promotion so far.

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#28 Oxtung

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:18 PM

To the people who want Pino and Johnson DFA'd...

These guys are the depth for our starting pitching. Starting pitchers get hurt. Look how many teams in the MLB have hurt starters. There is no reason to DFA these two guys. They should be in AAA during 2015 so we can use them if/probably when a starter gets hurt.

 

However, I agree with dumping Correia and Burton. Neither will be here in 2015, so there's no point to be here now. At this point, Correia is blocking our young starters. Pino and Johnson aren't blocking them because they can be sent down at any time. The only thing blocking May and Meyer is the person who could call them up.

 

Next season the Twins will have:

Nolasco- 32

Hughes- 29

Gibson- 27

Meyer- 25

May- 25

Pelfrey- 31

 

At AAA:

Sean Gilmartin- 25

Logan Darnell- 26 

 

and some combination of:

Taylor Rogers- 24

Tyler Duffey- 24

Jason Wheeler- 24

DJ Baxendale- 24

JO Berrios- 21

Return in a trade

MiLB FA

MLB FA

 

Pino- 31

Johnson-30

 

I think it's a pretty safe bet one or both are DFA'd this winter.They are what they are, two old journeymen pitchers.Those aren't exactly hard to come by.

Edited by Oxtung, 01 August 2014 - 01:20 PM.


#29 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:32 PM

I hate that Logan Darnell gets a start tonight. 
I would hate the extra game between starts for Hughes and Gibson. 
Although I didn't like the signing of Correia and hated watching his labored starts.He is what was advertised.He was a solid #5 starter. 
Hughes, Gibson, Milone, Pino and Johnson is good enough. to finish it out.
 
We just had 3 quality starts and one win against light-hitting KC.The problem is with the bats, not the arms.


I don't get the dislike for Darnell. He's not Meyer or May, but he looks like he could reasonably be a mid-rotation type starter. He's not your typical 5th starter that this team like so much.

#30 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:33 PM

Does anyone know if there's such a thing as an "injury settlement" in the major league baseball CBA if a player calls it a career in the middle of a contract?  I know there is in football.  Thinking in terms of Pelfrey.


Unlike the NFL, major league contracts are guaranteed. There's no out unless it's been agreed upon contractually. Pelfrey could request to be released (and the Twins could grant it) like Nishi did a few years back, but beyond that, Pelfrey is a Twin in 2014, regardless of his injury status.

#31 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:28 PM

Does anyone know if there's such a thing as an "injury settlement" in the major league baseball CBA if a player calls it a career in the middle of a contract?  I know there is in football.  Thinking in terms of Pelfrey.

 

I don't believe there is a settlement, but teams insure a lot of deals. So if they have insurance on that deal, the Twins are recouping some/most/all of the lost money. 

 

But usually that's only if you miss an entire season, which Pelfrey never has...


#32 Monkeypaws

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:29 PM

The Twins really, REALLY need to give Mays and Meyer their taste of MLB this season. 

 

The learning opportunity is just too huge to be wasted.


#33 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 05:43 PM

Wow, a 6 man rotation that STILL doesn't include Meyer?

 

We must have one of the best rotations in baseball if we don't have room for Meyer on a 6 man pitching staff.

 

Serious question Seth, how many SP's deep would our rotation have to go to have room for Meyer in it? Whatever that answer is, I vote for that. 

 

Meyer is a very tall pitcher, even once he's "ready" he will always have a high'ish walk rate. I don't understand using this as an argument why he's not ready. He is dominating AAA, I don't get it. 

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#34 DocBauer

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 07:08 PM

I like this idea a lot Seth. Don't remember which thread, but I mentioned this idea a few days ago. Easy to do in September, harder to do in August. But I don't think you HAVE to go to a 13 man staff to pull it off in August either. I think the Twins bullpen, 6 in this case, solid overall, should be able to handle any load placed on them. If something goes terribly awry, you can always put one of the starters in for an inning and skip a bullpen, or if it goes really awry, just switch back to a 5 man rotation. Sooner or later, Meyer needs to come up, get a taste of the ML's, even if it's September and out of the pen. The reason I like the 6 man is it allows guys like May and Meyer to get in their work and experience without pushing their IP limitations, while still keeping Hughes, Gibson and Nolasco getting their work, and at least one other option, obviously. (2 until Meyer is up)

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#35 DocBauer

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 07:19 PM

I don't get the dislike for Darnell. He's not Meyer or May, but he looks like he could reasonably be a mid-rotation type starter. He's not your typical 5th starter that this team like so much.


I also don't understand the dislike. He's got a decent build, decent velocity, and at least potentially OK stuff. His milb track record is generally solid. Plus, he's not a guy who's best seasons are in the past and lower down the ladder. In fact, his first full season in AAA, this year, is probably his best season. Isn't that a positive sign?

In his uneven but very brief appearances so far this season, he has shown velocity and gotten some SO's. Even in his short and poor first start, he still managed 7 K's. If the rotation doesn't work out, he might be a nice bullpen option. A younger, possibly harder throwing version of Duensing?

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

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#36 DocBauer

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 07:27 PM

Next season the Twins will have:
Nolasco- 32
Hughes- 29
Gibson- 27
Meyer- 25
May- 25
Pelfrey- 31
 
At AAA:
Sean Gilmartin- 25
Logan Darnell- 26 
 
and some combination of:
Taylor Rogers- 24
Tyler Duffey- 24
Jason Wheeler- 24
DJ Baxendale- 24
JO Berrios- 21
Return in a trade
MiLB FA
MLB FA
 
Pino- 31
Johnson-30
 
I think it's a pretty safe bet one or both are DFA'd this winter.They are what they are, two old journeymen pitchers.Those aren't exactly hard to come by.


Add Milone to the top of that list now, making it even deeper with more options.

And the various Rochester options has to make you excited!

There are at least a couple questions regarding the ML rotation, as well as vast potential that is, unfortunately still potential. But that is always the case, of course. But if you can't look at those SP options and not be at least a little bit excited, you'd better get your pulse checked!

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

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#37 WLFINN

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 07:30 PM

Maybe Meyer and May will debut on the 23rd for the doubleheader.

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#38 USAFChief

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:28 PM

Maybe Meyer and May will debut on the 23rd for the doubleheader.

If that's the case, make it the nightcap, please.
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Go Twins!


#39 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:00 PM

great idea. 6-man rotation gets more arms chances to throw against MLB competetion and more rest for guys coming back from injury. No sense throwing guys out there every 5 days just to watch the team lose 90 games. More arms, more rest, more better.

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#40 ashburyjohn

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 10:05 PM

A problem I see with evaluating 40-man talent in August/September as part of a 6-man rotation, is that you learn what they can do in the context of 6 or 7 days between starts, which is not the context you care about.

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Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons, Earthling!




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