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Article: Kurt Suzuki Signs Extension With Twins

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#91 teekz

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 10:57 AM

What other impact catchers are available?
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#92 jorgenswest

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:26 AM

Suzuki's contract is reasonable. He has been a major league average catcher this year ranking 16th in WAR.

The reasoning that he should or shouldn't be signed because no one else is available should never be used. Catchers are always available through trade.

There will be organizations that need a catcher his winter. They will find one. Catchers better than Suzuki will be moved this winter. Martin will sign with someone. Trades are allowed in the winter. The Twins haven't solved the catcher problem if Pinto is not a catcher. They should seek a prospect for prospect trade. The Padres, Red Sox and Mets have multiple young catchers. Meanwhile Suzuki is an adequate holder at the cost of a 5th starter.

Suzuki's signing is only a problem if it closes the door for the Twins on trying to find a longer term solution to this position.
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#93 spycake

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:33 AM

What other impact catchers are available?

None, really.  That's why I am fine with extending Suzuki, in a vacuum.

 

But this is a team that has neglected to even patch, much less adequately address, a variety of positions the past few years, not to mention ignoring potential impact players available outside the draft.  So I wonder, what's the point of patching this one spot now?  Especially with a semi-viable option sitting at AAA?  It feels like we're still just hoping for prospect luck and a 2017 target contending date anyway, with or without Suzuki, I think.


#94 teekz

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:20 PM

None, really.  That's why I am fine with extending Suzuki, in a vacuum.

 

But this is a team that has neglected to even patch, much less adequately address, a variety of positions the past few years, not to mention ignoring potential impact players available outside the draft.  So I wonder, what's the point of patching this one spot now?  Especially with a semi-viable option sitting at AAA?  It feels like we're still just hoping for prospect luck and a 2017 target contending date anyway, with or without Suzuki, I think.

 

We have young pitchers that are going to be filtering in a the next couple years. A guy like Suzuki who is very smart and has very good game plans on how to get batters out is a huge benefit. It helps teach the pitchers on how to get batters out.

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#95 mike wants wins

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:27 PM

Except, there is no evidence that Suzuki does that. Not in MN, not in he previous jobs (where you can better compare pitcher outcomes with different catchers). There just is zero actual evidence in outcomes produced he does that well. And, there is evidence he doesn't do it well (see other teams' results with and without him). All the positives are anecdotes, right?

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)


#96 nicksaviking

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:36 PM

I don't see how a Ryan could have managed this better.

He waited as long as possible to get a return in trade. Absent a reasonable return, he signed Suzuki to a deal that slots between their 2014 commitments to Correia and Willingham.

People who are against the signing would probably point out that we have no clue if there was a reasonable return offered.  For all we know Ryan was offered Dylan Bundy but still said no and opted for an extension.

 

Or he may have been offered a box of gas station doughnuts.  We will never know if this was a good move barring full disclosure from the front office, and we know that will not happen.

Edited by nicksaviking, 01 August 2014 - 02:37 PM.

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#97 JB_Iowa

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:42 PM

People who are against the signing would probably point out that we have no clue if there was a reasonable return offered.  For all we know Ryan was offered Dylan Bundy but still said no and opted for an extension.

 

Or he may have been offered a box of gas station doughnuts.  We will never know if this was a good move barring full disclosure from the front office, and we know that will not happen.

 

 

We'll never know what they might have gotten because the TWINS will never know what they might have gotten if they had been serious about moving him.

 

It's pretty clear from this Rob Antony quote that they weren't trying very hard to trade him:

 

"We had some calls about him. There was some interest,” Antony said. “We were telling people we might get something done. We were trying to get something done. That was the No. 1 priority when it came to Suzuki was we wanted to keep him rather than trade him."

 

http://blogs.twincit...ract-extension/

Edited by JB_Iowa, 01 August 2014 - 02:58 PM.


#98 Willihammer

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:58 PM

"The Twins weren't trying to trade" doesn't equal "shouldn't have traded." For all we know, someone did make a firm offer, or at least expressed serious interest. Why else would the extension coincide with the trade deadline?

#99 Monkeypaws

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:23 PM

Except, there is no evidence that Suzuki does that. Not in MN, not in he previous jobs (where you can better compare pitcher outcomes with different catchers). There just is zero actual evidence in outcomes produced he does that well. And, there is evidence he doesn't do it well (see other teams' results with and without him). All the positives are anecdotes, right?

 

Mike, is it possible that everything is baseball isn't quantifiable?

 

What about a pitcher's confidence in a particular pitch? What is our stat for that? Or a catcher's ability to settle down a pitcher that is rattled?

 

I appreciate your point of view, but I believe it ignores a lot of the elements that are present in human endeavors.

Edited by Monkeypaws, 01 August 2014 - 04:24 PM.


#100 Thrylos

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 05:29 PM

. People talk about Mitch Garver. Garver is 23 and hits like Pinto but is still at A, so maybe they don't think much of Garver catching skills either?

 

If Garver were any higher than A, he would have been moved faster that pretty much everyone but Mauer in this organization :)   He was just drafted last season.   To tell you the truth (and this comes from someone who has Garver as his top catching prospect in the organization and a pretty plush 17th overall) he was under the radar last season because of a poor transition to the wooden bat and lack of stamina after a full college season.   He did put a long of work this off-season and this really showed in Spring Training as far as I am concerned and caught my eye there.  Thankfully, it continued through the season.  He should probably finish at Fort Myers, but the longer the Twins are holding Pinto down, the more congested the Catching jobs are.

 

Not bad for a second year pro, really; because this is what he just is. 

Edited by Thrylos, 01 August 2014 - 05:30 PM.

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#101 spycake

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 05:36 PM

Mike, is it possible that everything is baseball isn't quantifiable?

What about a pitcher's confidence in a particular pitch? What is our stat for that? Or a catcher's ability to settle down a pitcher that is rattled?

I appreciate your point of view, but I believe it ignores a lot of the elements that are present in human endeavors.


Shouldn't those things manifest themselves in better results on the field, and thus better stats?

#102 Monkeypaws

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 05:40 PM

Shouldn't those things manifest themselves in better results on the field, and thus better stats?

How do we know they aren't?


#103 Thrylos

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 05:42 PM

How do we know they aren't?

 

I think that the bottom line (2014 record) says that they aren't ;)

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#104 spycake

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 05:44 PM

How do we know they aren't?


Well, if the stats suggest that pitchers don't perform better with Suzuki...

#105 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:20 PM

If Garver were any higher than A, he would have been moved faster that pretty much everyone but Mauer in this organization :)   He was just drafted last season.   To tell you the truth (and this comes from someone who has Garver as his top catching prospect in the organization and a pretty plush 17th overall) he was under the radar last season because of a poor transition to the wooden bat and lack of stamina after a full college season.   He did put a long of work this off-season and this really showed in Spring Training as far as I am concerned and caught my eye there.  Thankfully, it continued through the season.  He should probably finish at Fort Myers, but the longer the Twins are holding Pinto down, the more congested the Catching jobs are.
 
Not bad for a second year pro, really; because this is what he just is.

Glad to hear it - thanks

#106 KGB

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 12:12 PM

It's pretty hard to argue that he hasn't. He has posted a total of 1.8 WAR for roughly $9m at this point.

 

Kevin Correia and his contract isn't a problem. The problem is all the guys they didn't sign to pitch in front of Kevin Correia.

 

His WAR ranking is 13th for catchers and it's his career year, so it's likely to drop.  Kind of hard to believe we had to pay him the 6th highest contract for catcher in 2015.  Just because they have money to spend, doesn't require them to waste money. 


#107 mike wants wins

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 12:32 PM

The money is not an issue. They are swimming in money.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)




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