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Article: Kurt Suzuki Signs Extension With Twins

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#21 Mike Sixel

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:56 PM

I guess I'll withhold my final approval once the details of year 3 are made available.

 

Still, I think it is better to keep him in a reasonable deal than to trade him for rubbish, or let him walk for nothing.

 

Everybody is so sure he is gonna crash, but maybe he won't.

 

Stat nerds can fret about his framing, but I put more weight in the opinion of the pitchers who love to throw to him and wanted to keep him,

 

There is significant evidence in the world that the opinions of employees about the performance of other employees is not overly accurate. We have a TON of numbers that indicate if he's good at his job. I guess we can choose to ignore it, but that seems like an odd decision to make, where we actually have data.

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#22 Monkeypaws

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:56 PM

Why do the National Guys report on these deals before the local reporters?  I suppose it comes from his agent, but you would think the FO would send the local guys a bone now and then.

 

Seth breaks more stories than our local beat reporters

This is where I go for Twins news man!


#23 LaBombo

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:57 PM

The deal is sound in a vacuum.So is saying that the money is meaningless to the Twins.And so is the money they owe Pelfrey next year, for example.But take them out of the vacuum, add them together, and then visualize the kind of free agent that $11.5 million per season buys.Throw in the possibility that Mauer's biggest future impact on the team may be to reduce its available payroll by $22 million per year, and suddenly $6 million looks pretty meaningful.

 

The other thing about this is deal is that it may act, along with the hope that Pinto's defense develops to their liking, as an enabler that lets the Twins put off acquiring another option at catcher that can help the team contend as the everyday catcher in 2016 and beyond.

 

Suzuki should have nothing to do with filling that future need, but given the Twins' history and loyalty to players like Zukesie, it's hard to see them thinking that way.Molitor as manager would reduce but not eliminate that concern.

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#24 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:59 PM

There is significant evidence in the world that the opinions of employees about the performance of other employees is not overly accurate. We have a TON of numbers that indicate if he's good at his job. I guess we can choose to ignore it, but that seems like an odd decision to make, where we actually have data.

 

It's not that he's necessarily bad at his job... but he's certainly bad at one aspect of it.


#25 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:00 PM

But take them out of the vacuum, add them together, and then visualize the kind of free agent that $11.5 million per season buys. 

 

Ricky Nolasco?


#26 LaBombo

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:04 PM

I guess I'll withhold my final approval once the details of year 3 are made available.

That's a concern of mine as well.Vesting can create manager headaches with clubhouse controversy developing when a guy doesn't play much, even if he doesn't deserve to.

 

And it can also lead, especially in a franchise like the current Twins, to a guy getting too much playing time as a reward to push him toward the vesting threshold and the guaranteed money.


#27 Monkeypaws

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:04 PM

If framing is so important, is is possible catchers could improve at it?

 

Maybe watch tapes of the Molina brothers?


#28 Mike Sixel

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:07 PM

My point was that saying stat nerds should ignored over player evaluations is a bad way to run a company. I was not opining on the conclusions of the numbers. Really, it is too bad we have to label people.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#29 teekz

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:10 PM

That's a concern of mine as well.Vesting can create manager headaches with clubhouse controversy developing when a guy doesn't play much, even if he doesn't deserve to.
 
And it can also lead, especially in a franchise like the current Twins, to a guy getting too much playing time as a reward to push him toward the vesting threshold and the guaranteed money.


It's still an option regardless. Even if it doesn't vest, we should be able to pick it up.

I got nothing!


#30 LaBombo

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:23 PM

Ricky Nolasco?

Good one, Wash.

 

The only guarantee with free agents is that you won't get them if you can't afford them.Failures like Nolasco aren't a reason not to hope the Twins have money to spend, and do so.

 

In fact, Nolasco is another good data point in the Suzuki evaluation.Combine his worst case scenario with Mauer's, and 2015 roster creation starts with two replacement-level starters and a 50 million dollar payroll instead of $80.Suddenly Suzuki's 6 million is more than 10 percent of the payroll.Quite a bit for a guy we're hoping turns out to be a backup.

Edited by LaBombo, 31 July 2014 - 04:33 PM.


#31 Craig Arko

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:23 PM

If framing is so important, is is possible catchers could improve at it?
 
Maybe watch tapes of the Molina brothers?


Slip a few bills to the ump?
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#32 LaBombo

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:26 PM

It's still an option regardless. Even if it doesn't vest, we should be able to pick it up.

True, but only if FO and manager are on the same page.If there is uncertainty looming with the GM position, it would be easy to see Gardy getting Zukesie paid no matter what.


#33 JB_Iowa

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:28 PM

  1. Kurt Suzuki's 3rd-year option would vest with 485 plate appearances in 2016, per person with direct knowledge.

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#34 drjim

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:34 PM

 

  1. Kurt Suzuki's 3rd-year option would vest with 485 plate appearances in 2016, per person with direct knowledge.

 

 

That is a decent amount of PA for a catcher. If he hits that, he probably deserves a one year, $6 mil deal.

Papers...business papers.

#35 Monkeypaws

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:34 PM

I could see Suzuki 60/40 with Pinto next year, 40/60 the next, if he declines and Pinto improves. Or 70/30.

 

It seems like this contract gives the Twins a nice out if he declines.


#36 teekz

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:37 PM

You think they signed him for that much to be the backup? I think this shows that they have no faith that Pinto can be a major league starting catcher.

I got nothing!


#37 Shane Wahl

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:40 PM

It isn't clear why anyone supports this.


#38 drjim

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:41 PM

It isn't clear why anyone supports this.

 

#analysis

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Papers...business papers.

#39 John Bonnes

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:49 PM

Play nice, guys.

 

We got more contract details on that 3rd year from Berardino.

 

Update 5:46 PM: The options vests at 485 plate appearances, which would require Suzuki to play about 125 games. And there is no guaranteed money for the 3rd year. This contract continues to be more attractive to the Twins than I expected.  


#40 KGB

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 05:02 PM

Just another missed opportunity, followed up by a bad contract to an aging player.Can't believe they couldn't get a decent prospect for him, Dodger have 2 catchers batting below .200.Instead of trading him when he has value (like Willingham a couple years ago), we sign him for 2 more years and hope he beats the odds and becomes the rare catcher who improves in his 30's.$6 to $7 million to Suzuki, Willingham, Correia & Pelfrey and none of them are tradable.This front office needs to go.




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