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Burnett's Elbow Soreness May Force Twins to Make Roster Move

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#1 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:03 AM

The Twins have 12 pitchers on the roster and Burnett could end up on the disabled list according to ESPN's Phil Mackey. (Source: http://www.1500espn....ster_move052512)
Don't get your hopes up too high though Slama fans. Ron Gardenhire says right-handers Deolis Guerra and Lester Oliveros are the two likeliest bullpen candidates to be called up if a move were made. Mackey writes: "Anthony Slama also has solid numbers -- a 0.44 ERA with 33 strikeouts and 12 walks in 20 1/3 innings -- but Gardenhire said Guerra and Oliveros have "better stuff."."

#2 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:06 AM

Plus, Guerra and Oliveros are already on the 40-man. Slama would need to be added to it.

#3 Seth Stohs

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:12 AM

Plus, Guerra and Oliveros are already on the 40-man. Slama would need to be added to it.


This is probably the key...

#4 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:14 AM

The Twins only have 39 players on their 40 man roster as of now though.

#5 Shane Wahl

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:36 AM

No, by my count there are 40. Nishioka is one of them though . . .

#6 Shane Wahl

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:37 AM

Lester will be the guy, then. I would assume they will wait with Guerra a bit yet.

#7 Rosterman

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:39 AM

Baker is 60-dayed, so his spot is open. 39. Room for Slama!

#8 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:42 AM

No, by my count there are 40. Nishioka is one of them though . . .


Do we really? I went through this list multiple times and got 39. http://minnesota.twi...an.jsp?c_id=min
It says Baker doesn't count. Maybe it's not up to date? I don't know. I apologize if I am wrong shanewahl, but I'd just like a little evidence.

#9 Seth Stohs

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:19 AM

I count 39 as well. One thing to remember is that Kyle Waldrop has already missed almost 50 days, so he could be put on the 60 Day DL to open up a spot. Waldrop would just need to be put back on when he's done rehabbing...

#10 Shane Wahl

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:28 AM

Yeah, I ignored the 60-day thing. So . . . again, no respect for Slama.

#11 Shane Wahl

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:29 AM

The thing is it seems pretty guaranteed that Oliveros is going to be a viable reliever going forward from 2013 on. Same for Guerra, most likely. That isn't known for Slama. So . . . maybe they should FIND OUT!?

#12 righty8383

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:32 AM

Funny how Mackey writes about Slama having "solid" numbers. If his numbers are just solid I would like to see what GOOD numbers would look like.

#13 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:32 AM

They've been at 39 for some time now - since April I think. My understanding is that some teams like to keep a slot open in case something comes up on waivers or trade. It does mean, though, that they can't move Waldrop to the 60-day DL as you can only do that if your 40-man is full and you actually need the space for someone else.

#14 Thrylos

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:34 AM

I count 39 as well.

One thing to remember is that Kyle Waldrop has already missed almost 50 days, so he could be put on the 60 Day DL to open up a spot. Waldrop would just need to be put back on when he's done rehabbing...


Waldrop had a set back. He should be on the 60-day list.

I hope Slama gets called up. Both Oliveros and Guerra can use some confidence building in AAA. But this quote from this article is very telling about the feelings of the Twins' brass:

The Twins are skeptical about Slama's ability to succeed consistently in the big leagues because his fastball stays on "one plane," per Gardenhire. "Up here you've got to make it do something."


So, basically, the scouting department and the numbers do not agree and Gardy and Terry and Andy are going with the scouts... Unless this organization get new people with new mind set, the scouts will be running things and the Twins will continue the stagnation.
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#15 Curt

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:39 AM

Slama should, at least, get a chance. Does anyone removed from 40 man roster automatically have to go through waivers? No one would claim Nishioka, would they? And so what if they did? Will they really miss him in Rochester? He won't be back to the Twins. It seems like Baker is probably done here too. Are there other implications with Baker? There, I'll stop with five questions asked. :o

#16 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:48 AM

Slama should, at least, get a chance. Does anyone removed from 40 man roster automatically have to go through waivers? No one would claim Nishioka, would they? And so what if they did? Will they really miss him in Rochester? He won't be back to the Twins. It seems like Baker is probably done here too. Are there other implications with Baker?

There, I'll stop with five questions asked. :o


My understanding is, yes, anyone being removed from the 40-man has to go through waivers. If they are not claimed, they can be outrighted to the minors (assuming they are not 5-year veterans or have given consent), traded, or released.

That was done to prevent clubs from stockpiling talent that is major league quality (at least theoretically) in their minor league system - it gives good players who belong in the majors the chance to actually be there, if not with their current team than with someone else. Same with the option system - to prevent stockpiling talent.

#17 Shane Wahl

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:50 AM


So, basically, the scouting department and the numbers do not agree and Gardy and Terry and Andy are going with the scouts... Unless this organization get new people with new mind set, the scouts will be running things and the Twins will continue the stagnation.


Precisely. And that's terrible. The old guys caricatured at the beginning of Moneyball might not be caricatures in the Twins organization. Only Rantz is that damn old though.

#18 nicksaviking

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:54 AM

No one would claim Nishioka and even if they did, the Twins would have to be thrilled about losing the rest of his salary. I'd like to get another look at Slama, but I understand the hesitation. Aside from the fact that his fastball may or may not have any movement, he does not have a high velocity. No movement plus average velocity does not translate into K's at the MLB level and since he is a K heavy, all or nothing kind of pitcher in the minors, he may have to radically adjust his approach at the next level.

#19 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:59 AM

Yeah, I ignored the 60-day thing.

So . . . again, no respect for Slama.


Could it be they are trying to keep their options open (both figuratively and literally) on Slama?

He was on the 40-man in 2010 and 2011 - that's two option years burned up. He only has one left. If they call him up this year, and he isn't quite ready, next year he either stays on the 25-man roster or get's put on waivers. I'm not trying to defend them, because I don't know, but it seems to me it makes sense to bring up one of the pitchers who is doing a comparable job but has already burned an option year this year, so there is no real cost.

Just a thought.

#20 Paul

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:22 PM

...So, basically, the scouting department and the numbers do not agree and Gardy and Terry and Andy are going with the scouts... Unless this organization get new people with new mind set, the scouts will be running things and the Twins will continue the stagnation.


I think your hatred for Gardenhire may be affecting your judgement here. The quote you cited said nothing about "scouts". It was (apparently) a direct Gardenhire quote. His thought. And quite legitimate from my point of view.

If by "scouts" you mean people with a lot of winning baseball experience then you might as well reconcile yourself to the fact that ML baseball will always and forever be run by the "scouts". Just like bakerys, law firms and banks will always be run by bakers, lawyers and bankers. There's a thousand details, subtleties and variables that the bean counters and statisticians don't see.

#21 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:34 PM

Could it be they are trying to keep their options open (both figuratively and literally) on Slama?

He was on the 40-man in 2010 and 2011 - that's two option years burned up. He only has one left. If they call him up this year, and he isn't quite ready, next year he either stays on the 25-man roster or get's put on waivers. I'm not trying to defend them, because I don't know, but it seems to me it makes sense to bring up one of the pitchers who is doing a comparable job but has already burned an option year this year, so there is no real cost.

Just a thought.


He's 28 now and options shouldn't be a concern. There is no reason to "stash" a guy in the minors during his prime years. Not to mention that he's performing spectacularly (understatement).

#22 gunnarthor

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:38 PM

I think your hatred for Gardenhire may be affecting your judgement here. The quote you cited said nothing about "scouts". It was (apparently) a direct Gardenhire quote. His thought. And quite legitimate from my point of view.

If by "scouts" you mean people with a lot of winning baseball experience then you might as well reconcile yourself to the fact that ML baseball will always and forever be run by the "scouts". Just like bakerys, law firms and banks will always be run by bakers, lawyers and bankers. There's a thousand details, subtleties and variables that the bean counters and statisticians don't see.


Exactly. Other teams have had chances to grab Slama and haven't. Sickels at minorleagueball, and a big Twins fan, has also never been big on Slama. We fans sometimes lack a lot of information and tend to 'go nuts' over things we don't know about.

#23 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:40 PM

He's 28 now and options shouldn't be a concern. There is no reason to "stash" a guy in the minors during his prime years. Not to mention that he's performing spectacularly (understatement).


He is performing well (although last night he was less than impressive) but no more so than Guerra or Oliveros, who are both 5 years younger and probably have more upside.

#24 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:48 PM

He is performing well (although last night he was less than impressive) but no more so than Guerra or Oliveros, who are both 5 years younger and probably have more upside.


Slama has been performing extremely well for three years. Guerra and Oliveros have been for roughly half a season. I know they have more "upside", but what honestly has more merit?

#25 Dilligaf69

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:24 PM

Wasn't Slama below avg at best when he was up with the Twins?? Rather finally see Guerra and if Oliveros can find his control he is the type of hard thrower we lack.

#26 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:56 PM

Could it be they are trying to keep their options open (both figuratively and literally) on Slama?

He was on the 40-man in 2010 and 2011 - that's two option years burned up. He only has one left. If they call him up this year, and he isn't quite ready, next year he either stays on the 25-man roster or get's put on waivers. I'm not trying to defend them, because I don't know, but it seems to me it makes sense to bring up one of the pitchers who is doing a comparable job but has already burned an option year this year, so there is no real cost.

Just a thought.


You're right about Slama's options. But - unless his brief major league appearances change something - he'll have six years of minor league service after this year and will be a free agent in November anyway. So if the Twins want to keep in the organization (which it doesn't seem like they really care), they'd have to add him to the 40-man between now and November. At least bringing him up would allow him to prove who's right: the scouts or the numbers.

#27 Rosterman

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:09 PM

This is the year to give Slama all the time possible to succeed. He can't be any worse than Burton, Gray, Maloney...Capps or anyone else you dredge up from the waiver wire. He's old-er, so this is his last chance. He will pick up somewhere...was really surprised when he wasn't claimed in the Rule 5 last season. Unless the Twins...shades of Neshek...really don't like him. If you don't want him, don't keep him around. Same with Revere. If he isn't in your plans (and, like Plouffe, why the f* did you draft him high in the first place, then get rid of him...just because people say he can't do certain things. Man, this biz. So, Twins, let's 60-day Waldrop soon. At some point Burton and Gray will go out the door and two more roster spots will materialize. The Twins have to actually think about Toshi....hell, the Mariners are talking of cutting loose Figgins, the Padres literally said goodbye to Hudson, and Adam Lind is an expensive cut by the Jays. Give Slama some time. He deserves it as much as any of the Thompson trio, Burton, Gray, Maloney, Oliveros, Diamond.....

#28 Shane Wahl

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 12:57 AM

I cannot stomach some of these comments. My god, Slama has had a VERY LIMITED MLB time and you cannot judge him on that, so just stop. And with regard to option years and being claimed . . . . teams could have done that already . . . With regard to that . . . often too much is made about players being available to be claimed and kept on the 25-man roster and if they aren't claimed it supposedly means something bad about them. First, pitchers can get better. Second, the waiver wire is not really some open market on players . . . most teams don't really want to get deeply involved in such speculation from other teams when they have it in their own organization. Third, the guy is DOMINANT in AAA. How does that not translate in AVERAGE OR BETTER at the minimum in the MLB, man? I am almost a pacifist . . . but if I thought Twins baseball mattered in life or death way, I might Pass-a-fist at the person(s) keeping Slama down at this point. As stated from the get-go Anthony Swarzak is not good. Jeff Gray still holds on, but he still has no future here. Capps is not the closer of the future. Replacing those three guys with Slama, Guerra, and Oliveros is not insane, and in fact seems pretty good. Given things as they are and given that Nick Blackburn is going to be on the roster in 2013 because no other team is stupid enough to want him, why not make him the mop-up long reliever starting now? He probably is an upgraded Swarzak in that role. Swarzak can be traded for a low-A power arm.

#29 glunn

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 12:58 AM

I agree with giving Slama a chance. The Twins have no chance of winning the division, so there is nothing to lose, and his numbers suggest that he must have some ability to get people out.

#30 Shane Wahl

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 01:07 AM

And there is Carlos Gutierrez and Tyler Robertson working to be the backups in this plan of mine. I always thought that either Gutierrez (bad on my part) or Perkins should be the closer, but then people argued about "high-leverage" situations. And now I say that this is rather silly because Duensing is the lefty setup man in high leverage situations and Perkins is struggling from poor usage. That 95-96 mph fastball FROM A LEFTY is valuable to end games. And he is signed long-term. They paid Capps a retarded amount. Perkins MUST be the closer of the future, right? To do that would be a GREAT move given his contract. Imagine a 'pen that is: Blackburn/Manship Slama Liriano Guerra Duensing Oliveros Perkins