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De Vries vs Hendriks

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#1 travistwinstalk

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:21 AM

Last night they both pitched and Hendriks went 7 and gave up an unearned run on five hits with two walks and nine strikeouts. Now on the year at Rochester he is 3-0 with 1.40era in 4 starts. Cole De Vries went 5 innings and gave up 6 runs although only 3 were earned on three solo homeruns. I really respect Cole De Vries for his story and the hardwork he put in to get a cup of coffee with the Twins. However, for anyone to compare the two is like comparing Barry Bonds to Nick Punto it just is not a fair comparision. The reason I have a problem with bringing up De Vries now is the Twins with a move like this are giving up when you have a better option. I would have 0 problem with this in july or august and the twins are 20 games back. I know they are 11 back now but Cleveland is red hot right now and that won't last and with Mauer and Morneau taking off with the pitching of Diamond and Walters the Twins should be trying to get better not giving a guy a chance. Maybe I am blind, but I don't see the logic in this and before I get any hate responses i have followed De Vries in the minors the last three years and respect the heck out of him. I am so happy for him that he gets an opportunity couldnt happen to a better guy. However, to be objective with a good pitcher like Hendriks ready this was the wrong move.

#2 SirLoin

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:46 AM

I've contended that DeVries is more suited for the bullpen than in the rotation. He's a 7th inning-guy, probably nothing more. Granted, there are also a few bullpen arms in Rochester that are more deserving of that role - Slama, Guerra, Oliveros, et al. It's been a nice little story, and I don't see any reason why he shouldn't remain on the 40-man as a reliever, while still starting in Rochester to stay "stretched out" as they say. It's hard to ignore how Hendriks has been pitching since he was sent down. Considering the direction this season is going, he probably belongs with the Twins. I'd say, let's give Hendriks one more start, and if he's at least solid, get him back in the rotation.

#3 jareddejong42

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:47 AM

Last night they both pitched and Hendriks went 7 and gave up an unearned run on five hits with two walks and nine strikeouts. Now on the year at Rochester he is 3-0 with 1.40era in 4 starts. Cole De Vries went 5 innings and gave up 6 runs although only 3 were earned on three solo homeruns. I really respect Cole De Vries for his story and the hardwork he put in to get a cup of coffee with the Twins. However, for anyone to compare the two is like comparing Barry Bonds to Nick Punto it just is not a fair comparision. The reason I have a problem with bringing up De Vries now is the Twins with a move like this are giving up when you have a better option. I would have 0 problem with this in july or august and the twins are 20 games back. I know they are 11 back now but Cleveland is red hot right now and that won't last and with Mauer and Morneau taking off with the pitching of Diamond and Walters the Twins should be trying to get better not giving a guy a chance. Maybe I am blind, but I don't see the logic in this and before I get any hate responses i have followed De Vries in the minors the last three years and respect the heck out of him. I am so happy for him that he gets an opportunity couldnt happen to a better guy. However, to be objective with a good pitcher like Hendriks ready this was the wrong move.


I think the Twins decision to bring up De Vries has more to do with Hendricks long term development than the comparison between the two pitchers recent performance. They feel Hendricks needed a few extra starts to build confidence down in AAA. This seems to have been an effective move by judging Hendricks' recent results. With that said, De Vries carried him self well last night, just left a few too many balls up in the zone in a ballpark that considers a pop fly a home run. He should fare better at Target Field.

#4 Seth Stohs

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:50 AM

Gwinnett's offensive stats in the International League (AAA): .248/.327/.363 (.690). Chicago's offensive stats in the American league (MLB): .249/.315/.407 (.722). My point isn't to say that DeVries pitched better, or even all that well, but it isn't like the circumstances they were pitching under were identical. MLB vs AAA MLB Debut vs Another Start in AAA Prospect standing Arbitration timelines Wanting to make sure that the guy you believe can be a 2/3 type of pitcher is taken care of an they're doing what's best for him.

#5 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:52 AM

I'm not sure the Twins had a better option, at least not at Triple-A. Hendriks did have his shot, and butchered it. Just because he's doing well at a lower level doesn't mean he's fixed those things that caused him problems at the bigs before. Let's not jump immediately to the insanity of trying the same thing and expecting a different result. Hendriks will hopefully be ready later this year, but let's not rush his return. As far as DeVries, I was not in favor of his being called up (I wanted to give Duensing a shot this year; I still do, last night notwithstanding), but as long as he's here, he needs to get a fair opportunity, which to me means 4-5 starts minimum. Baseball ability is not meant to be evaluated on single game performances. Now that he's here, give him 3 weeks, and we can reassess then.

#6 gunnarthor

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:09 AM

Hendriks is a legit prospect so I'm ok with them letting him get some more starts at AAA. He'll be back up here eventually. DeVries pitched well enough for us last night. I agree with the poster that said he could be a good bullpen arm. He had some nice break on his pitches.

#7 Top Gun

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:18 AM

Give DeVries 3 or 4 games, see what he can do. He pitched very well last nite, only one of those runs was really earned. Should have been 3 errors and the wind was blowing out. Let the kids pitch see what they can do, no better time than right now.

#8 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:20 AM

He pitched very well last nite,


What game were you watching?

#9 jwb1226

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:40 AM

only one of those runs was really earned.
.


I thought the only runs that were earned were the three homeruns he gave up. What game were you watching? He still pitched horribly

#10 Thrylos

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:44 AM

DeVries yesterday pitched better for the Twins than Hendriks did this season. That is that. Apples with Apples.
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#11 Seth Stohs

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:49 AM

What game were you watching?


Yeah, I don't think he pitched 'very well' last night. What I do think is that I saw enough to say that he does need to get 3-5 starts to see what he can do. I mean, it was his major league debut, so I expect the nerves were all over the place. The pitches weren't all consistent, but 1.) he threw strikes, 2.) he has a good curveball, and 3.) his cutter at 92 is a very nice pitch.

#12 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:04 AM

However, for anyone to compare the two is like comparing Barry Bonds to Nick Punto it just is not a fair comparision.


Nick Punto does have more World Series rings than Barry Bonds...

#13 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:05 AM

The pitches weren't all consistent, but 1.) he threw strikes, 2.) he has a good curveball, and 3.) his cutter at 92 is a very nice pitch.


His cutter is faster than his 4 seamer?

#14 Seth Stohs

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:09 AM

His cutter is faster than his 4 seamer?


It didn't make sense to me either, but the pitches that hit 91-92 did cut, so I'm not sure how that works. It hit 92, but it was generally 89-90.

#15 roger

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:10 AM

I think the Twins decision to bring up De Vries has more to do with Hendricks long term development than the comparison between the two pitchers recent performance. They feel Hendricks needed a few extra starts to build confidence down in AAA. This seems to have been an effective move by judging Hendricks' recent results. With that said, De Vries carried him self well last night, just left a few too many balls up in the zone in a ballpark that considers a pop fly a home run. He should fare better at Target Field.


Well said. In my opinion, Hendriks projects as a pitcher who will be very similar to Brad Radke. That makes him a legit #2 and perhaps with the Twins, their #1 starter. Yes, he needs more experience at AAA and it is the correct long-term decision to allow him to get it. I see him staying in Rochester until around the all-star break. Then he comes up and will be one solid part of their rotation for the next decade. As for Cole, it is good to see another guy my son played against in legion ball getting his chance. With all the guys giving up three or four runs in two innings, lets at least give a rookie a couple months after giving up three earned runs in 5+ innings. It is also important to remember that in his last start in Rochester, he was pushed beyond his normal pitch count as he went for a complete game.

#16 Rosterman

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:14 AM

Hendriks needs a few more starts to totally polish himself up at Rochester. The Twins had the opportunity to do a looksee with DeVries to see what they have. For all intents and purposes, the Twins could've also recalled Hendriks to start today and hang around until Blackburn returns (something I'm not really looking forward too). It's also a lesson for DeVries. See what adjustments he makes during his next start/s. Then he can go abck down to the minors and really work and see where he might end up with the Twins. You can never have too many pitchers, and the Twins have a lot of journeymen and also rans to fill most teams 4th 0r 5th and long relief spots. And I want to see both Swarzak and Duensing STAY in the ullpen, especially when you are trying out new starters. Last night aside, Duensing shines in that role. Swarzak is a good innings eater, but will be pushed by the likes of a Manship or DeVries next season.

#17 Rosterman

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:17 AM

Yeah, he was pushed towards the complete game and surprised Ron and Rick weren't just satisfied with 5 solid innings for his first start...instead pushed him a little too far and bang, bang and then Duensing had to get loose fast and more bang. I', still not always pleased with pitcher management (like Diamond the other nite sitting for a long inning, and batting even...you do have the players and should have a solid game plan when the game actually starts of what you dream, can do, and need to do).

#18 adjacent

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:20 AM

I think De Vries did OK last night, although, besides the home runs, there were some loud outs. I also agree that, long term, probably Hendricks will be part of the rotation, not him. A possibility for the time being, depending on how Swarzak fares today, is that Swarzak goes to the rotation and he becomes the long man. I assume that Blackburn will go to some rehab starts at AAA before he comes back and that Liriano is not going to start yet for a while.

#19 DAM DC Twins Fans

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:22 AM

Having been to too many games in a fly ball equals HR park (Camden Yards)--last night not a fair test for Cole--especially considering first MLB start. Give him several more including one or two at Target Field (a pitchers park) and lets see what he has. Hendricks had his chance and blew it. He will get another later this summer...

#20 glunn

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 01:08 AM

I'm not sure the Twins had a better option, at least not at Triple-A. Hendriks did have his shot, and butchered it. Just because he's doing well at a lower level doesn't mean he's fixed those things that caused him problems at the bigs before. Let's not jump immediately to the insanity of trying the same thing and expecting a different result. Hendriks will hopefully be ready later this year, but let's not rush his return.

As far as DeVries, I was not in favor of his being called up (I wanted to give Duensing a shot this year; I still do, last night notwithstanding), but as long as he's here, he needs to get a fair opportunity, which to me means 4-5 starts minimum. Baseball ability is not meant to be evaluated on single game performances. Now that he's here, give him 3 weeks, and we can reassess then.


I agree with this. Having no hope of winning the division gives the Twins the luxury of giving prospects a chance to make the adjustments necessary to succeed.

#21 Shane Wahl

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 01:20 AM

Again, Duensing is not a starter. Also, this is what should be in the books for the Twins this year: 1. DL Pavano after this start to rest his shoulder so he comes back and hopefully regains a modicum of velocity so he proves to be tradeable to a team like the D-Backs, Dodges, Rangers, Marlins, or Reds (or Orioles!!--God let's hope that a team like the Orioles has a miraculous season but needs certain players . . . ). 2. DL Blackburn for as long as he needs it, but hopefully he moves to the mop-up role. 3. Continue with Diamond, Walters, and DeVries for awhile. 4. Promote Bromberg to Rochester and give him some starts there. 5. Promote Hendriks 6. Promote Bromberg. 7. Trade Pavano 8. Roll with Hendriks, Bromberg, Diamond, Walters, DeVries/Manship/Deduno/French

#22 Shane Wahl

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 01:23 AM

There then is a possibility that by June of 2013, the rotation is: FA strikeout pitcher (oldish, like Dempster), Gibson, Hendriks, Diamond, Bromberg.

#23 glunn

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 01:25 AM

Again, Duensing is not a starter.

Also, this is what should be in the books for the Twins this year:

1. DL Pavano after this start to rest his shoulder so he comes back and hopefully regains a modicum of velocity so he proves to be tradeable to a team like the D-Backs, Dodges, Rangers, Marlins, or Reds (or Orioles!!--God let's hope that a team like the Orioles has a miraculous season but needs certain players . . . ).
2. DL Blackburn for as long as he needs it, but hopefully he moves to the mop-up role.

3. Continue with Diamond, Walters, and DeVries for awhile.
4. Promote Bromberg to Rochester and give him some starts there.
5. Promote Hendriks
6. Promote Bromberg.
7. Trade Pavano
8. Roll with Hendriks, Bromberg, Diamond, Walters, DeVries/Manship/Deduno/French


This seems like an excellent plan. Pavano has no long term value, and if even "only" three of Hendriks, Bromberg, Diamond, Walters, DeVries/Manship/Deduno/French can be starters next year, then the Twins could be on the road to a young, decent pitching staff.

#24 Shane Wahl

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 02:22 AM

Add a FA like Dempster and the arrival of Gibson at the top of this, and there is a totally different rotation than this damn nonsense this year.

#25 Shane Wahl

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 02:32 AM

And outside of Dempster, it's cheap. $20 million for the entire staff? Dempster 12.5 Gibson .500 Hendriks .500 Diamond .500 Bromberg .500 Manship .500 Slama .500 Guerra.500 Robertson.500 Oliveros.500 Duensing1.200 Perkins 1.550 This depends on Burton and Burnett, for the most part.

#26 Shane Wahl

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 02:34 AM

They trade Swarzak, Liriano, Burton, and Capps for whatever. 4 mid-high prospects is the ceiling, but that's nice.

#27 Top Gun

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 07:11 AM

That sucks, can anyone win 10 games?