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Promotions That Did Happen

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#1 goulik

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:57 AM

Let's discuss the "prospects" that have been up this year and their future with our club.

From the beginning of the year we knew that this year was about building for the future while trying to be better than last year. So many have complained about who we have not brought up (Meyer and May ) while complaining about who did get a taste of the bigs (Darnell, Johnson and Pino) Well, we are also finding out what we have in lesser prospects while we try out the bigger names. Yes May and Meyer are our future front line starting prospects and they need to be up this year, but what are Johnson, Pino, Darnell long term? What are they to us in 2015-16?

While so vehemently criticizing the front office and owner for not trying out those we want up (now) we tend to overlook the other numerous promotions. I see it as an optimistic look at the future to have seen Polanco up twice (very briefly) from low A. Hicks WAS brought up too early and he turned into a hot mess that still hasn't been fixed (I am still hoping). I want this thread to be focused on the positive side of the front office and owner and how they have given us numerous faces to evaluate (and judge) this year

So what do we think of these new(er) names as we look to 2015-16. Will they be here, what role should they have in our future, and if not here where will they be (cut, traded, still in the minors)?

So, here are the names:
Pino
Johnson
Darnell
Fuld
Nunez
Arcia
Hicks
Santana
Escobar
Hermann
Tonkin
Pinto
Florimon
Colabello
Polanco
Pressly
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#2 TheLeviathan

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:20 AM

That list made me a sad panda.

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#3 pierre75275

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:21 AM

I would like to see Gilmartin get a shot sometime in the next year, or as a Sept call up this year.

#4 Seth Stohs

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:37 AM

So what do we think of these new(er) names as we look to 2015-16. Will they be here, what role should they have in our future, and if not here where will they be (cut, traded, still in the minors)?

So, here are the names:
Pino
Johnson
Darnell
Fuld
Nunez
Arcia
Hicks
Santana
Escobar
Hermann
Tonkin
Pinto
Florimon
Colabello
Polanco
Pressly

 

My opinions:

 

Pino  - Probably DFAd after the season and re-sign to a minor league deal.
Johnson - Could be ea DFA candidate. Don't think he'd stay on a minor league deal.
Darnell - 4/5 starter, or a Duensing-type reliever.
Fuld - Quality 4/5 outfielder.
Nunez - Quality utility type - 3 IF positions and a couple of OF spots
Arcia - Hopefully a middle of the lineup bat, though he certainly has work. He's still very young, but needs to hit lefties better and shorten his swing.
Hicks - 2 options left, talent is immense... could also be a trade-low, change-of-scenery type
Santana - immensely talented, could go into 2015 as the starting CF, and could be a SS option for the future.
Escobar - strong utility guy who we've seen isn't going to hurt you if there is an injury and he needs to play full time.
Hermann - utility guy, 5th OF/3rd Catcher type
Tonkin - I'd like to think a solid 7/8 inning guy.
Pinto - DH/3rd catcher
Florimon - Could be DFAd any time.
Colabello - solid bench bat, part-time player, DH type
Polanco - Could be the shortstop of the future, maybe as early as late 2015.
Pressly - I'd think he's viewed as a six-year bullpen guy, similar to Swarzak.

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#5 goulik

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:44 AM

Exactly the positivity I was looking for... There is some hope in these guys (not all of them but some)

#6 Badsmerf

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:12 AM

Seth, I agree about everyone with the exception of Hermann. He is not an mlb player. His value was in catching and he's terrible at it. He can't hit a lick and isn't even a great of. He can provide emergency back up, but only on a minor league contract that didn't take up a 40 man roster spot.
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#7 kab21

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:14 AM

Arcia is frustrating.  So much talent but he just can't get on a roll due to some poor habits.  I drool at the prospect of a breakout season next year.

 

Santana has had a very nice rookie season and looks like he could be a solid starter at SS.

 

Tonkin - I want to see more before I grade him.  I think he could be good but he had a terrible initial callup.

 

Hicks continues to plummet down everyone's list.  He's still young and he still has tools but that's about all you can say after the disastrous first two seasons.  Perhaps people will stop criticizing the Twins every time a prospect isn't promoted after 60-80 great games at a level.

 

Polanco gets an incomplete.

 

Pinto better improve his catching because I'm not convinced that he will ever be a guy that you want to enter the season as Plan A at DH.  Like Doumit he will probably be a nice hitter but not exactly the guy you want at DH.  It's actually kind of scary to compare their MiLB stats.  Almost the same # of G/AB's, AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS, K's, BB's and exactly the same # of 2B's.

 

Escobar and Nunez are fine utility If'ers but hopefully Santana claims the SS spot at some point.

 

Most of the rest are just utility players or practically the last guy that should be allowed to make an MLB team.

I look forward to the day that a pitching prospect is truly blocked by good pitchers.


#8 clutterheart

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:20 AM

I would release the following guys:

Pino - DFA
Johnson - DFA 
Hermann - DFA

Florimon - DFA

Colabello - DFA

 

None of these guys should have a future with a Twins team that is good


#9 Willihammer

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:30 AM

Santana has a 5/1 K/BB ratio and .394 BABIP. He is going to regress into something approaching Florimon territory I suspect. Yet another 25th man/utility on a team overflowing with them, IMO.


#10 mike wants wins

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:32 AM

Of the new guys this year, Santana might be a legit starter. A fan for sure.

 

None of the SP that debuted this year are more than filler/AAAA/5th starter when things go bad, I think.

 

Most of the players are good backup types, which a team needs. I actually kind of like Nunez and Escobar for those roles.

 

Arcia and Hicks came up last year. I was fooled one year by Hicks, but mostly I've thought of him as a 4th OFer, with good defense. His D did not live up to the billing at all, and his hitting was worse than I thought it could be somehow. I still think he has talent, but he's not MLB ready right now. Hopefully they just take their time with him.

 

Arcia is what many scouts on line say he is, when he hits it, great, but he misses it too often. He's young, I'd just leave him out there and see what happens. He clearly has a chance to be good.

 

Tonkin's FB seems a bit straight. Still has a chance, and I think he should be up here learning this year.

Lighten up Francis....

#11 drjim

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:32 AM

I would release the following guys:

Pino - DFA
Johnson - DFA 
Hermann - DFA

Florimon - DFA

Colabello - DFA

 

None of these guys should have a future with a Twins team that is good

 

I agree on the last 3. Pino or Johnson could potentially be decent relievers, but they are probably part of a group of 5-6 guys that could fill the same role. So they could easily be DFAed if the roster space is needed.

Papers...business papers.

#12 Badsmerf

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:48 AM

There is always a need for guys like pino and Johnson. Once may and Meyer are up and an injury happens you want those guys for a few spot starts. That is the perfect role for them. I don't mind using a few 40 man spots for guys like them.... problem is when you have 5 or so bring taken up with that type.
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#13 kab21

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:53 AM

Santana has a 5/1 K/BB ratio and .394 BABIP. He is going to regress into something approaching Florimon territory I suspect. Yet another 25th man/utility on a team overflowing with them, IMO.

typically 23 yr old rookies K more and walk less than they did before.  He's going to regress for sure.  If he didn't then he would be an all-star but I see him regressing more towards that solid SS that doesn't kill you with the bat.  Maybe high .600's OPS.  Somebody to hold down the fort until something better comes along.

I look forward to the day that a pitching prospect is truly blocked by good pitchers.


#14 beckmt

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:59 AM

Colabello could be a bench bat.  Agree on the other 4.  Hope Santana and Arcia turn into starters on the next good Twins team.  Will see more the second time around for Santana. Pinto could be a decent catcher, we have more on the way 2-3 years out.  Pressly has a chance to be good or a reliever like Swarzak for the next several years.  Tonkin will wait and see, Twins have many reliever types on the way up, is Tonkin better or worse than them?  RIght now I feel worse, but we shall see.  Polanco probably has a future here. Most of the rest are filler types and need chances to see which we keep and which on sent on their way.  This is why the Twins need to give these players chances in the next two years, you do not want them to have to be given chances on good Twins clubs.


#15 Tibs

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:16 AM

What about Parmelee? Can we add him to your list?

I couldn't be a player because of bad eyesight, so I decided to be an umpire instead.

#16 spycake

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:08 AM

Hicks - 2 options left, talent is immense... could also be a trade-low, change-of-scenery type

 

Is that true, about the options?  Hicks was optioned in 2013 and 2014, so it would appear he only has 1 left (I don't think he qualifies for the 4th option year, as he played in a full-season league in his first full season).


#17 TheLeviathan

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:11 AM

Man I hope they don't sell low on Hicks.  I really want to believe he's got a part still to play.


#18 Thegrin

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:33 AM

Hicks is soon gone and will be quickly forgotten.

Parmalee could be a big stick for us.  As a Lefty he hits lefty pitchers well.


#19 goulik

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:23 PM

Talking Parmalee is fair game but he has been up longer than the rest of the list...
I saved my opinions but I have some I will share now...

Pino- DFA to open 40 man spot after season
Johnson- #5 or Long relief/spot starter not necessarily on the Twins though
Darnell- #5 Starter or long relief/spot starter
Fuld- 4th OF for a year or two w/Twins
Hicks- LF on a different team
Arcia- RF for Twins for next 7 years as a 260 BA/20+ HR guy
Nunez- Bench bat for me more yr with Twins then journeyman for a few years
Escobar- Punto 2.0 for next few years
Colabello- Bench bat/Pinch hitter for a few years but not necessarily with the Twins much longer
Florimon- A few years from now, the name no one remembers when asked to name 2014 Twins players
Herrmann- Butera 2.0 (Nooooooo!!!)
Pinto- Place holder for our future catcher next couple years
Santana- Shortstop until unseated by Polanco then super Utility until Gordan arrives
Polanco- up permanently sooner than anyone currently thinks
Tonkin- reliever for Twins next 3-4 years before becoming a journeyman
Pressly- reliever for Twins next 4-5 years before becoming a journeyman

#20 Sconnie

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:32 PM

Exactly the positivity I was looking for... There is some hope in these guys (not all of them but some)

if Seth is your idea of hope and positivity, what's a negative opinion?

#21 stringer bell

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:03 PM

I am not a total believer in Santana, although his hitting has been encouraging. I think both Escobar and Nunez have shown themselves to be major leaguers. Hicks' bat won't play anywhere but center field. As soon as next year, there won't be a vacancy there. I think Pinto can become a solid regular catcher, but he needs to catch, so Suzuki should be traded.


#22 DocBauer

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:11 PM

Taking my shot:

Johnson and Pino are DFA, though both could be back in milb deals. They simply don't have enough to compete with what we have coming up in the rotation, and might face just as stiff of competition for pen spots.

Darnell has just enough stuff and velocity to stick as a 4-5 starter. Ultimately, he's a 3rd LH reliever next season, possible replacement for Duensing in the future.

Escobar and Nunez are nice bench players. Escobar the better glove, Nunez the better bat. Both offer some position flexibility, some pop, and some speed. I like them on the bench, at least for the next couple of years.

Santana is a real mystery man. I doubt he's the all-star player he's shown thus far this season. What? All star material? Doc...you're an idiot! And this may be true! But really, if he could hit the way he's hit, even close to it, long term and actually play a solid daily SS, that's what you'd have. The realist/pessimist in me wants to spout about regression, sample size, etc. But the thing is, the kid has real talent. And if you don't think he was rushed, and put in to an awkward, tough position of not only being rushed, but having to spend the majority of his games playing an almost foreign positions, then you simply aren't paying attention. And yet, the kid has worked hard, improved, hung around, hit, battled impressively at the plate, and been a real spark plug. All while being rushed and being bounced around between CF and SS. I am NOT predicting future All Star status, but you just HAVE to be impressed with what he's shown thus far.

Fuld might be back on a friendly contract. But I could also see him easily replaced if the Twins prove to be even mildly aggressive in FA next year.

Colabello remains a great and favorite story. DFA or not, bet he's back next year. He's worked too hard, already had a taste of success, that I bet he's back. Still has a shot for a year or two as a role player.

Tonkin is back up in September if not before. Hopefully he sticks for good this time. The potential is there.

Polanco is a stud waiting to happen. Just be patient and don't get obsessed with milb error totals.

Hicks has waaaaaay too much talent and potential to dump. How much is head case and how much is being rushed we may never know. But you just don't cut someone like that at this point.

I'm higher on Pinto and Herrmann than many. Coming up through the minors, both got at least solid marks defensively, and showed solid bats. Pinto more power, Herrmann more contact and line drive power. I thought Pinto was solid to close out last season, and still has a future. I think Herrmann can still be a solid reserve given a solid role. No question we have some very solid backstop prospects down in A ball and below.

Without injury and suspension, the whole "promotion and building through youth" factor might have looked very different this season. Meyer and May, very first seasons in AAA to remind, WILL be up. Might have been up sooner if not for a couple setbacks. You just have to believe Sano, Buxton and Rosario would at least be Septembef call ups if not more had things worked out differently.

This team, I feel, absolutely needs to make some moves in FA before next season if they want to be competitive, but the youngsters that have seen time, will see time yet, and should be ready at some point next seasons, (Polanco, Vargas, maybe Walker to name a few), has us on the right track I think.

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#23 Spikecurveball

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:41 PM

Gardee dfa
Ryan dfa
Mauer designated hitter unless we can dump him somehow
Molitor manager
Kick the 4a fillers down the road.

#24 goulik

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:22 PM

Gardee dfa
Ryan dfa
Mauer designated hitter unless we can dump him somehow
Molitor manager
Kick the 4a fillers down the road.


That was not positivity.... Just saying!

#25 TwinsCD

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 11:06 PM

Pino
Johnson
Darnell
Fuld
Nunez
Arcia
Hicks
Santana
Escobar
Hermann
Tonkin
Pinto
Florimon
Colabello
Polanco
Pressly

 

I'll take my shot with what I've seen from some of these guys (I don't follow as closely the prospects in the minors):

 

Pino -- decent stuff but seems to lose it a bit once he gets past 4 or 5 innings.  Sounds like a future reliever to me.

 

Johnson -- Hasn't impressed me at all so far.  But if we're desperate for a bullpen slot, he might be able to fill it.

 

Darnell -- Incomplete in my eyes.  Took one for the team in his spot start the other day.  Need to see more of him.

 

Fuld -- I think there's a place for someone of his caliber somewhere on the roster.  Good speed and range in the outfield.  A threat when on base.  Thought he was a pretty shrewd pickup back in April.

 

Nunez -- I like him.  Decent glove, can be a solid leadoff guy

 

Hicks -- W. T. F?  Leave him in the minors until he truly tears it up down there and then give him one more shot at the major league level.  Really nice glove but he's almost an automatic out when he comes to the plate.

 

Arcia -- hopefully a cornerstone in the lineup for years to come.  As I said in another thread -- just needs to learn some more plate discipline.

 

Santana -- Gotta stay healthy.  When he went down at the beginning of June, the lineup started to suffer.  Has a way of getting on base and really good speed.

 

Escobar -- Not sure there's room for 3 or 4 guys like him on the roster.  Needs to do more to stand out in a good way.

 

Herrmann -- bye bye.  

 

Tonkin -- Don't know anything about him.

 

Pinto -- Would prefer that he was up instead of Fryer right now.  Surely, he could do better than some of the other bats we have on a semi-regular basis.

 

Florimon -- Anyone who has a below .100 batting average and isn't a pitcher has no business being in the major leagues.

 

Colabello -- Don't see the disdain for him that others do.  I think he's a good bat to have on the bench when you need a blast.  I don't think his April run was an accident.  Just needs to continue to have the same approach at the plate that he did then.

 

Polanco -- Don't know anything about him.

 

Pressly -- I was lukewarm towards him when he was up last year.  Be interesting to see how much he's improved once he comes up again.


#26 goulik

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:35 AM

Crap, Fryer wasn't on my list... I guess he's that forgettable to me. Prediction: next year 98% of Minnnesotans won't even know he was ever a Twin

#27 Thrylos

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:58 AM


 

Escobar -- Not sure there's room for 3 or 4 guys like him on the roster.  Needs to do more to stand out in a good way.

 

 

 

Don't look now, but Escobar has the second highest batting average in the team, his OPS+ is close to league average 97 and higher than that of Mauer, Arcia, Morales, Colabello, Nunez (to name a few.)  Compare his slash line (.272/.315/.396) to Dozier's (.230/.325/.418) and you will see a decent complement of middle infielders (one hits HRs, the other can put the ball in play with a man on third)  and at 25 he is the second younger regular after Arcia.  Plus he is playing a solid SS by any measure (including eyeballs.)

Not sure what there is not to like about Escobar at this point...

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#28 SwainZag

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:55 AM

Hicks is soon gone and will be quickly forgotten.

Parmalee could be a big stick for us.  As a Lefty he hits lefty pitchers well.

 

Why would Hicks be soon gone?  The kid isn't even 25 yet.  There is absolutely no reason to sell low or get rid of him anytime soon, he still has a ton of talent.


#29 Seth Stohs

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:05 AM

Is that true, about the options?  Hicks was optioned in 2013 and 2014, so it would appear he only has 1 left (I don't think he qualifies for the 4th option year, as he played in a full-season league in his first full season).

 

Right... meant this year and next.