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Article: Is Mauer Breaking Down?

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#1 Nick Nelson

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 09:28 PM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...r-Breaking-Down

#2 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:19 PM

Who was that crazy ol' guy who, for a couple years now, has gone on and on at BYTO about how the Twins were risking Mauer's long and short term health by keeping him at catcher?

#3 Nick Nelson

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:35 PM

I dunno. Some weirdo.

#4 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:51 PM

Off topic....but you guys picked a hell of a year to launch this Twins Daily thing, huh?

#5 Nick Nelson

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:53 PM

Eh... No shortage of things to talk about. Just wish they weren't so depressing.

#6 Shane Wahl

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:08 AM

It seems clear that Mauer needs a few more real days off--the current C/1B/DH ratio seems pretty good, but another slash for days off altogether might be helpful. If only, if only, they would have started that C/1B/DH ratio a few years ago. And, ironically, not starting Mauer a few more games here and there actually decreases the need for Drew Butera.

#7 frightwig

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:13 AM

Most catchers, even the great ones like Bench, tend to suffer a steep decline by age 32. As I recall, Posada and Fisk are rare exceptions; and Posada didn't become a regular starter until his late 20's, and even Fisk was pretty erratic from year to year after he turned 30. Given Mauer's history of leg and back injuries (including the injury in his rookie year that resulted in the meniscus cartilage being removed from one knee, which seems to have been collectively forgotten at some point), the Twins certainly were taking a huge leap of blind faith in betting on Mauer to maintain superstar value into his mid-30s. But whether he's already close to being washed-up, who knows. I wish he could boost that slg pct above .400, at least, but even if his current line is the new reality for Mauer, his OPS+ and wOBA are closely comparable to his production in 2005 and 2007, when he was worth 3.4 and 3.1 fWAR, respectively. That's not a $23M value, but that's still a very good player, perhaps even an All-Star, or just a cut below. It's a shame that fans are so quick to boo someone who is not only a very good player, still, but seems humble and hard-working, and rates as the best catcher and among the very best players in frickin' Twins history, just because injuries apparently have caught up to him, so he's not worth $23M of the Pohlad family's money. (If fans need to find a way to be philosophical about the money, try thinking of half his salary as back pay for all the free bonus value he provided from 2004-10.)

#8 frightwig

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:27 AM

Btw, Mauer's wOBA and wRC+ currently are 3rd best among AL catchers. If you were choosing an All-Star team today, Wieters and Napoli would be your top 2 catchers. But if you had room to take a third catcher, I think Mauer or possibly Carlos Santana would be next. BOO?

#9 Krogher

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:35 AM

I've never understood booing a player who isn't a d-bag. Booing Beckett? Sure, his personality is combative. Booing A-Rod. Ok, he's condescending, and has an oil painting of himself in some hybrid-animal form. (May be a rumor.) Mauer? Why? Because we're paying to see him? No one cares more about his performance than he does. I'm just a fan. I pay the money whether they rock or they suck. Plus, I live in Metro Detroit so seeing them is a treat that only comes 3-4 times a year.

#10 twinswon1991

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:24 AM

Mauer needs to get back on the juice like he was when he had his one big power season which duped the Twins into signing him to a contract only a true power hitter can earn. Now we have 8 more years watching a Casey Kotchman clone play 1B/DH making 20 million more than he is worth. Who hits more HR's at Target field this year Carroll or the 23 million dollar man?????

#11 MauerHOF

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:34 AM

The really sad part is the Twins have no chance of winning until they get out from under the contract of the most over-rated player in MLB history. The Twins can't spend 25% of their salary on a player who hits less than 5 HR's and drives in 70 RBI a year. Mauer apologist keep saying he is playing hurt and that is why he is not performing at a high level. They talk about previous trends of his hitting. But, then the trend is Mauer is soft and always is hurt. The apologists can't have it both ways. In reality, if Mauer had played football at FSU, he probably would have been injured on the first snap, breaking his fingernail on the center exchange. I am a season ticket holder but will not be renewing my tickets next year mainly due to not wanting to watch Mauer hit for the cycle in ground outs. I understand that Mauer has a no trade clause, but there is not a team in MLB that would want a slap hitting singles utility player that makes $23 million a year. The Twins would be lucky to get a used jock for Mauer. I completely agree with "twinswon1991", Mauer is Casey Kotchman making $23 million a year. PATHETIC. As a season ticket holder, I will be booing Mauer everytime he gets to the plate.

#12 fslbaseball

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:44 AM

The way I see it is the problem is Mauer's strength. The charts show he is hitting pretty much to the same areas but now the grounders arent getting through. Also if you look at the flyball outsm they are much shallower than 3 years ago. The season is only about 1.4th over but this trend has been in the making for years. Following are the charts from pitch f/x site for 2009 and 2012.
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#13 CDog

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:51 AM

It's good to see the level of discourse devolving toward that on the local papers. Oh wait...it's not good at all. I have to guess that if I were to accuse another poster of criminal activity without a shred of evidence, that the post would be removed and that I would have my account temporarily banned if not deleted permanantly. I'll wonder here why the same wouldn't be done simply because the accusations are being leveled at a non-poster.

#14 CDog

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:52 AM

The really sad part is ...

I completely agree ..., Mauer is Casey Kotchman...


I would say the really sad part is a person being unable to understand the rank-ordering of the standard numbering system. But that's just me.

#15 Shane Wahl

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:53 AM

Some of these comments make me think we are on the Star Tribune's site . . . irrational nonsense.

#16 nokomismod

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:13 AM

I've never understood booing a player who isn't a d-bag. Booing Beckett? Sure, his personality is combative. Booing A-Rod. Ok, he's condescending, and has an oil painting of himself in some hybrid-animal form. (May be a rumor.) Mauer? Why? Because we're paying to see him? No one cares more about his performance than he does. I'm just a fan. I pay the money whether they rock or they suck. Plus, I live in Metro Detroit so seeing them is a treat that only comes 3-4 times a year.

Well said. I think fans here are just kind of shocked and depressed and unfortunately Joe's taking the brunt of it.

#17 Shane Wahl

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:17 AM

It's good to see the level of discourse devolving toward that on the local papers. Oh wait...it's not good at all.

I have to guess that if I were to accuse another poster of criminal activity without a shred of evidence, that the post would be removed and that I would have my account temporarily banned if not deleted permanantly. I'll wonder here why the same wouldn't be done simply because the accusations are being leveled at a non-poster.


You beat me to it!

#18 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:24 AM

Because he makes nearly twice as much as any other catcher, I would at least hope that he could be #1 in production at his position. What time will they shut him down this year?

#19 DAM DC Twins Fans

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:24 AM

I dont agree with the booing...I do think Mauer is giving 100%...but I think the years of catching and injuries have caught up. It is now past time for Joe to toss away the catchers mask and shin guards. Joe should be playing at 3B everyday until Miguel is ready. I think his body can recover that way and he can stay healthier for the next 3 or 4 years. Joe has the arm and athletic ability to play 3B.

#20 jeffk

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:29 AM

If fans need to find a way to be philosophical about the money, try thinking of half his salary as back pay for all the free bonus value he provided from 2004-10.


I think the key to winning as a small-market (or even a mid-market) team is quitting while you're ahead and getting the Yankees to pay that free bonus value.

#21 Boom Boom

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:33 AM

Fans can boo whomever they want to boo. In a year when the Twins slashed a payroll that they admitted was more than they wanted to spend, his contract is obviously hurting the team. Mauer should be held to higher standards than anyone else in that Twins dugout. In most other markets the fans wouldn't have waited so long to boo him so aggressively.

#22 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:39 AM

I've never understood booing a player who isn't a d-bag. Booing Beckett? Sure, his personality is combative. Booing A-Rod. Ok, he's condescending, and has an oil painting of himself in some hybrid-animal form. (May be a rumor.) Mauer? Why? Because we're paying to see him? No one cares more about his performance than he does. I'm just a fan. I pay the money whether they rock or they suck. Plus, I live in Metro Detroit so seeing them is a treat that only comes 3-4 times a year.


While I'd never want a player like Alex Rodriguez on my team, I don't watch the Twins because they are nice guys. I watch because I want them to win. This performance we have seen is completely unacceptable and I don't think many people saw it coming. On paper, it definitely looked like the Twins got better during the offseason. They added Doumit, Willingham, and Carroll while only losing Kubes and Cuddy. Not one, but two former MVPs came back in good health. Spring training also went excellent and gave us positive signs coming into the inaugural season. If you would have told me that this team was going to stay healthy and the bullpen would not be an issue at the start of the season, I'd definitely think that they were at least playing competitive and possibly in contention for the AL Central. Instead, they have managed to put together an even worse record than 2011's pathetic team. How?!

#23 raindog

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:43 AM

I've booed one player at a baseball game, and it was John Rocker. For being an all-around terrible person. That's the only time it was ever justified. Sure, paying ticket holders have a "right" to boo, but that doesn't make it any more sensical. It's completely idiotic to boo someone who is trying as hard as they can to be the best player they can be. There is no proof that he's done otherwise. Also, I have a question. What would the Twins have done with the money saved by not paying Mauer? Signed one ace to a bloated contract? Signed a couple average pitchers? Maybe a couple average position players? Either way the Twins would still be terrible. The problem is the farm system. You can't build your team through free agency unless you're the Yankees, and even they are good at developing their own players. So if you want to boo anyone, boo the front office, the scouts, whatever. If that makes you feel better.

#24 Thrylos

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:19 AM

The way I see it is the problem is Mauer's strength. The charts show he is hitting pretty much to the same areas but now the grounders arent getting through. Also if you look at the flyball outsm they are much shallower than 3 years ago. The season is only about 1.4th over but this trend has been in the making for years. Following are the charts from pitch f/x site for 2009 and 2012.
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Interesting... in a couple of ways.

2009 was in the Metrodome and 2012 at Target Field so that might be part of the equation. On the other hand, something is seriously wrong with those charts if the Metrodome and Target Field are shown as the same shape park with the same dimensions....
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#25 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:00 PM

I dont agree with the booing...I do think Mauer is giving 100%...but I think the years of catching and injuries have caught up.

It is now past time for Joe to toss away the catchers mask and shin guards.

Joe should be playing at 3B everyday until Miguel is ready. I think his body can recover that way and he can stay healthier for the next 3 or 4 years. Joe has the arm and athletic ability to play 3B.


Yup. Mauer should have been a full time 3rd baseman for several years now. There's a good chance we wouldn't be having this conversation, because there's a good chance he'd be healthier and more productive.

#26 rover27

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 02:09 PM

The move from the Dome to Target Field didn't help Mauer(or most of the Twins' hitters) either. Easier to hit home runs and ground balls that are outs on grass often times made it thru on artificial turf.

#27 twinsfan214

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 03:04 PM

I've never understood why someone would go to a game to boo their team. However, yes, they can boo if they want to. Mauer's such a good guy he would probably say he understands and accepts it. Hope he turns it around soon. Meanwhile I'm contemplating a long weekend trip to Beloit.

#28 rogrulz30

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:38 PM

Mauer's value at this point belongs in the #2 spot, I have said this for 2 years now, he can't be batting the three hole the way he hits the ball. He isn't going to hit for power, or if he does, then move him back. HE has to learn to hit for power to right field. The Dome set him up for the contract. Span, Mauer, Doumit, Willingham, Morneau, at this point would. I don't blame anybody for booing at any time, since you have paid to come to the game, you have paid for the players salaries, do what you will at the stadium.

#29 BigVin

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 02:46 PM

Joe should be playing at 3B everyday until Miguel is ready. I think his body can recover that way and he can stay healthier for the next 3 or 4 years. Joe has the arm and athletic ability to play 3B.


I've been saying this for 2 years now, and now is the right time to make the shift. Mauer is a natural athlete, and if he can play catcher and first, third base will be a piece of cake!

Edited by BigVin, 17 May 2012 - 02:49 PM.


#30 shs_59

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 01:48 PM

To me Mauer is all out of whack at the plate right now.... He looks like opposite side of the plate Jamey Carroll Right now...all leaning over the plate not able to reach the pitch up and away. In Mauer's case he can hitt the pitch, particually off-speed or breaking stuff, down and often down and out of the zone, but he cannot catch up to pitches up in the zone. If Teams start pitching Mauer high in the zone, (and can get strikes called in doing so) They might figure out a way to get Mauer out even MORE consistantly.... Frightening? Because well yes, because Mauer is getting himself out waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than ANYONE is accustomed to seeing. tappers or GB's to 2B. Mauer should just take the rest of the season off Come June or July 4th ......Rest Rehabb and more R & R and work work work, come baack strong and with vengence next year, maybe even a chip on his shoulder. + the R & R thing is nice with a newly wed. Get some out of him now.