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Should the shift be an illegal defense?

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32 replies to this topic

Poll: Infield shift (33 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you support a rule outlawing the IF shift?

  1. Yes (1 votes [3.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.03%

  2. No (32 votes [96.97%])

    Percentage of vote: 96.97%

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#21 SgtSchmidt11

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 10:14 PM

The stats don't even really show that shifts are all that effective anyways.I know about them but I would never run the extreme versions.More shading, less shifting (SS closer/farther from 2nd, not in RF)


#22 TheLeviathan

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 05:51 AM

I hope a manager starts swapping OF'ers in key situations just to show you how ridiculous this is.


They don't already? As Sweetone said.....the outfielders could get in a round of musical chairs between some pitches if they wanted to.

Managers tell people where to pitch, when to swing, where to play, who gets to hit, who gets to pitch, etc. the notion that shifts are categorically different is what's ridiculous.

#23 kab21

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 06:14 AM

They don't already? As Sweetone said.....the outfielders could get in a round of musical chairs between some pitches if they wanted to.

Managers tell people where to pitch, when to swing, where to play, who gets to hit, who gets to pitch, etc. the notion that shifts are categorically different is what's ridiculous.

 

I have never heard of a manager swapping his LF and RF'ers during an inning for an extreme pull hitter.Why have Delmon in RF against McCann if you have Revere in LF?

I look forward to the day that a pitching prospect is truly blocked by good pitchers.


#24 TheLeviathan

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 06:24 AM

I have never heard of a manager swapping his LF and RF'ers during an inning for an extreme pull hitter.Why have Delmon in RF against McCann if you have Revere in LF?


If they did....what's the difference?

#25 mike wants wins

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:10 AM

The stats don't even really show that shifts are all that effective anyways.I know about them but I would never run the extreme versions.More shading, less shifting (SS closer/farther from 2nd, not in RF)

 

Which stats show that?

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#26 Boom Boom

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:55 AM

I'd also suggest that players moving around for shifts is a drop in the ocean for why baseball is slow.  If that's your issue - take it up with advertising, the song and dance the hitter/pitcher play before every AB, and overuse of bullpen.

 

The one that really gets me now - the manager strolling out to the field to stall for time while the bench coach reviews the video to determine if they want to challenge or not.

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#27 Willihammer

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 02:21 PM

The average length of a Twins game is 3 hours 05 minutes, 50 seconds. By comparison, fifty years ago it was 2 hours, 44 minutes, 38 seconds. So even after lowering the mound, inventing the closer, the setup man, 100 count pitch limits, batting gloves, foul balls, shifts, instant replay, 9 figure contracts and 2 minute commercial breaks, Twins games are barely 20 minutes longer than they were in the Johnson administration.

 

I'd be more open to rule changes if someone could convince me the game was broken but I don't think it is.

Edited by Willihammer, 02 August 2014 - 02:23 PM.

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#28 Dance with Disco Dan

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:00 PM

You'll have to show me data that the game is being delayed even minutely while the players shift.  The shifting players aren't waiting for the batter to dig in before they move. Moreover, if the shift results in even one fewer baserunner per game, it more than offset any delay resulting from defenders moving around.  I think the "delay" argument is being used as a straw-man for something else - resistance to change, preference for status quo, etc.

 

Here is the shift rule MLB needs:  "If you work as a commentator for the MLB Network, you can be anti-shift but you CANNOT scream and shout about the worthlessness of the shift every time a ball goes for a hit against the shift through the spot a 'traditionally' positioned player would be if the team did not shift.  ALL MLB commentators must demonstrate some level of understanding that the shift is deployed to increase the PROBABILITY of fielding a batted ball and it is not a guarantee of fielding a batted ball."

 

This shall be known as the Ripken/Reynolds rule.  Get it on the books Bud.

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#29 drjim

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:25 PM

The average length of a Twins game is 3 hours 05 minutes, 50 seconds. By comparison, fifty years ago it was 2 hours, 44 minutes, 38 seconds. So even after lowering the mound, inventing the closer, the setup man, 100 count pitch limits, batting gloves, foul balls, shifts, instant replay, 9 figure contracts and 2 minute commercial breaks, Twins games are barely 20 minutes longer than they were in the Johnson administration.

 

I'd be more open to rule changes if someone could convince me the game was broken but I don't think it is.

 

I also think a part of this is increased time between innings for commercial breaks, something like 30 seconds, which can add 10 minutes or so to total length of game.

 

People just like to whine about length of games, it has been that way for 100 years. 

 

People also like to say it is too slow for the modern audience but I think they are looking at it wrong. Baseball works very well in a two screen culture.

Papers...business papers.

#30 Thrylos

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:43 PM

I think that baseball should adopt the short center (aka "rover") 

The folks who invented softball new something

 

/sarcasm

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#31 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:58 PM

The shift is a neat idea, and against some hitters, it's a useful tool. I don't think it should be illegal, and I don't think it slows down the game.

 

If you're worried about length of game, make the batter stay in the box like they do in MiLB and have the umpires enforce delay of game on pitchers. The shift doesn't make games longer.

 

The idea of shifting OFers around for different hitters is, I think, a good idea, especially when you have a Revere/Delmon LF/RF situation, or something like that. Good idea, and something I'd be much more in favor of than the shift.

 

That being said, back to my original point, I think the shift is useful, and when deployed correctly it helps stop some hits. Not sure how much it does, or if the shift has any type of staying power in the league, but it's here now until hitters begin to adjust. Could that be a generational thing while we wait for more players with better bat control to come through systems and big power bashers who strike out all the time to retire?

 

Let them play where they will defensively.

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#32 darin617

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:15 PM

Teams would stop the shift on some hitters if they would break what would be called an unwritten rule in baseball and just learn to bunt and beat the shift for a base hit. I know this is insane that you would first have to teach most hitters to bunt before you could put it in effect. A slap bunt down the 3rd base line might actually go for a double against some shifts.


#33 TheLeviathan

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:46 PM

Teams would stop the shift on some hitters if they would break what would be called an unwritten rule in baseball.....

 

Yeah but then the world would EXPLODE.  We'd have human sacrifice, cats sleeping with dogs, mass hysteria!!!!!