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What Should be Done in the Next Five Days

trades promotions demotions terry ryan
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#61 Shane Wahl

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 12:14 PM

Plouffe has some value right now and it isn't clear that Deibinson Romero is so grotesquely worse to hold 3B down until Miguel Sano. If I knew Plouffe was going to be used as a four corners utility player, especially against lefties, then that would be great. Need a different manager, of course.


#62 Shane Wahl

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 12:24 PM

The Morales trade for Pryor does not give me good feelings (that was an atrocious idea).

 

But I still would like to see Suzuki, Fien, Willingham, Correia, and Duensing traded for sure. I also like the idea of trading either Plouffe or Escobar because there is some real value there. Escobar could be one of the very best utility infielders in the league if kept in that role. Also, Jared Burton . . . a full eating of his salary would be necessary, but at least the Twins might get a player back.

 


#63 drjim

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 12:48 PM

Another year and nearly the exact same thing results. I was pretty vocal last offseason about demanding accountability from the top on down through the pitching coach and then also with key people in the minors (Steil, in particular, and now Johnson as well). There was a lot of "well, the manager doesn't really do anything" kind of talk in response. What about now? Antony already showed me that he cannot be TR's successor. So . . . a total revamping is necessary. And a total commitment to the youth movement needs to start. It should have started this year. Hicks-Santana-Arcia in the OF, Pinto up, May, Meyer, Achter, Oliveros up (some of this may still happen . . .).

 

What is your complaint about Steil? I would think he has done a great job.

Papers...business papers.

#64 spycake

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 12:56 PM

I really think you're overly harsh on Plouffe. Is he a star? No. Is he even average? Hard to say, he teeters between "acceptable league-average starter" and "ugh".

 

But he has value, particularly on a team with no suitable replacement.

 

It's not Plouffe's fault that he has been jammed into roles not tailored to his skillset. As a roving corner utility guy off the bench primarily against lefties, he'd be a valuable player that helps a contender win ballgames.

 

Part of it is context and perception: Plouffe certainly feels like no more than a starter on a 90+ loss team, because he's only ever been a starter on a 90+ loss team.  Stick him on the '87 or '91 Twins and he might not look so bad.

 

Then again, after being a first-round draft pick, everything else about Plouffe's career screams "mediocre."  Repeating AAA for 4 years, mediocre batting lines every minor league season up to his 4th AAA year, couldn't force his way into some very spotty infields on the 2008-2010 Twins... even his one good MLB hitting stretch only lasted a month or two.  Not to mention defense -- 6+ pro years at shortstop but couldn't stick in the middle infield, got bad reviews in the corner OF, took a couple years to adapt to 3B (although statistically, it does appear that he has adapted).


#65 drjim

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 12:56 PM

Also, let us not forget Terry Ryan's remarks about Eric Fryer in that interview for Twins Daily. Never forget.

 

Fryer is not even the worst catcher in mlb right now. Your obsession with him is hilarious. Not sure what you expect out of a third catcher providing AAA depth.

Papers...business papers.

#66 eLee612

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:08 PM

Non MLB prayers/projections - I'd like to see the MN girls RBI team make it to the World Series in TX in August and kick butt!

 

 

5.  Extend me free tickets to any game I want to see for the rest of my life.  (Since we are dreaming here I am going all out) 

 

Well my 'dreaming' wish happened - RBI MN Twins fast pitch girls team going to the SHIP in Texas. Way to go ladies!!

 

Brandon - if you could please pull off such luck, and extend me into your dream of all access tickets all the time. SOMEONE has to be there cheering, rain or shine or snowmageddon, win, loss or sufferfest. Might need one of these on some days  :th_alc:  but I will be Twins Proud until the very last day!! 

Nadie dijo que la vida sería fácil, sólo dijeron que valdría la pena.

#67 wavedog

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:07 PM

Suzuki and Baltimore are a fit so I think he will be traded this week. Especially with extension discussions being pressed. I would bring Pinto back up to catch under Steinbach's instruction. Don't think Willingham or Correia will be traded - maybe in August if they show some improvement. I can't see any of our secondary relievers being in demand but maybe Burton would be shipped out in August to a contender for a couple of bucks.

#68 DocBauer

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:19 PM

My two cents...
 
Offer Suzuki a two year 15 mill deal.  If he takes it--fine.  If not--trade him.
 
Then start fire sale--Willingham, Correia, Nolasco, Plouffe, bullpen guys.  We wont get much--but will open spots.  Bring up Meyer, May, Hicks (Aaron not DJ), Pinto etc.  Play them and see if they are part of the future or not.  Trade Mauer if can find takers--his contract is albatross--so probably no takers.
 
2015--go with kids Buxton, Sano, Walker, DJ Hicks, etc.  They will take lumps but give them chance.  Bring up Dougie or Jake Mauer to manage and the other to coach (along with Watkins and Lucas).
 
Gardy must be gone.  Ryan too--with replacement outsde the Twins org.


OK, just to be clear, Buxton, who has barely played this season, and is getting back on track in A ball, and Sano, coming off surgery, who hasn't played an inning since ST, Walker, who is still in A ball, and DJ Hicks should all be in the starting lineup next year? And we should fire the entire coaching staff and replace them with various members of our milb coaching staffs?

Interesting. Just...a little perspective OK?

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

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#69 DocBauer

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:23 PM

LOL, yup, get rid of him.  What's he done to me, absolutely nothing.  Shown me absolutely nothing in his time here.  I'd rather have Luke Hughes playing there, and if given the rope Plouffe has been given, we'd most likely have a better 3rd baseman.  I've said it before, like last year, and will continue to stick with it, Plouffe  doesn't help us and we'll never amount to anything with him on the team.  And I'll say this again, MARK MY WORDS!  
 
I mentioned him in the first place because posters were saying what they'd do in the short term.  I'd move him, Willingham and Correia to start things off.  Those 3 have no future here.


Isn't Hughes hitting .400 batting cleanup in his church league? Thought I read that somewhere.

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

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#70 DocBauer

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:38 PM

When you look at the state of the Twins when Terry Ryan took over, it is hard for me to conclude that he needs to be replaced.  When you lose 95 games and the MLB team and farm system is bare, priority #1 is rebuilding the farm system so you can get better for the future in a sustainable fashion.  By any measure, Terry has done that very, very well.  While a poor MLB team has helped with this via good draft picks.  We have drafted very well, Buxton, Kohl, and Gordon (early on Gordon), Berrios.  In time I think Gonslaves and Burdi will be good picks.  Walker was a good value in round 3.  And flipping Span and Revere for Meyer and May could end up being a coup. 
 
Theo Epstein gets all this credit for the Cubs and he has basically done the same thing Terry has done, while drafting in a better position in 2013 and 2014.
 
I think it was inexcusable that we didn't spend more money to make this team watchable early on in his tenure and we can criticize Matt G, Kubel, Bartlett, etc.  But the most important thing could not really have been done any better.


This.

Mostly.

The Smith regime brought in a few nice young players, but Ryan's second tenure has seen the Twins minor leagues suddenly flush with talent. He's building from the ground up, and that's what you do for long term success. He came back to a mess, and is building from the ground up. He might not be directly involved with all the draft choices or signings, but he has a hand, even if it's his people making the decisions. And his moves brought Meyer and May on board. He also brought us Hughes and Nolasco, who will still pay off when healthy. Nolasco? Meh. I think there were other options, though I can't really fault the thought process. Fully healthy in 2015, he might yet help. If not, the Twins have the flexibility financially to move on.

No, Ryan gets no pass for failing to bring on a couple options for this season, CF being a prime example. Because a flyer on Barlett was OK in theory, but come on! But I wonder, if he had managed to snag Garza, even with the Nolasco injury, how would he be viewed?

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

--Lou Brown


#71 Kwak

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:40 PM

Part of it is context and perception: Plouffe certainly feels like no more than a starter on a 90+ loss team, because he's only ever been a starter on a 90+ loss team.  Stick him on the '87 or '91 Twins and he might not look so bad.

 

Then again, after being a first-round draft pick, everything else about Plouffe's career screams "mediocre."  Repeating AAA for 4 years, mediocre batting lines every minor league season up to his 4th AAA year, couldn't force his way into some very spotty infields on the 2008-2010 Twins... even his one good MLB hitting stretch only lasted a month or two.  Not to mention defense -- 6+ pro years at shortstop but couldn't stick in the middle infield, got bad reviews in the corner OF, took a couple years to adapt to 3B (although statistically, it does appear that he has adapted).

I was thinking about why Plouffe wasn't promoted to the Twins (even for a cup of coffee) in the same period mentioned.  Your comment was spot on with respect to the Twins left-side infield in that period.  Was Plouffe in stasis because of Gardenhire's demend for "vets"?, his man-crush on Punto? or was it due to Plouffe "just not being good enough".  I mean, he should have been promoted--or released.


#72 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:18 AM

I was thinking about why Plouffe wasn't promoted to the Twins (even for a cup of coffee) in the same period mentioned.  Your comment was spot on with respect to the Twins left-side infield in that period.  Was Plouffe in stasis because of Gardenhire's demend for "vets"?, his man-crush on Punto? or was it due to Plouffe "just not being good enough".  I mean, he should have been promoted--or released.

 

Plouffe really didn't show much until his until his final option year. 


#73 spycake

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:23 AM

I was thinking about why Plouffe wasn't promoted to the Twins (even for a cup of coffee) in the same period mentioned.  Your comment was spot on with respect to the Twins left-side infield in that period.  Was Plouffe in stasis because of Gardenhire's demend for "vets"?, his man-crush on Punto? or was it due to Plouffe "just not being good enough".  I mean, he should have been promoted--or released.

diehardtwinsfan correctly notes that Plouffe's minor league record was straight-up mediocre until 2011.

 

Plouffe was on the 40-man roster in 2009, and I think it says something that the Twins made Matt Tolbert their pennant-race and playoff starting 3B rather than even look at Plouffe (who had already played some 3B in both 2006 and 2008, as well as some 2B in 2008).

 

Fortunately, in the intervening years (mostly 2011), Plouffe improved from minor-league mediocre to major-league mediocre.




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