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What Should be Done in the Next Five Days

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#21 Thrylos

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:33 AM

TK retired if I remember right.He wasn't forced out.And let's not forget that there were some periods of pretty poor play during his tenure as well. 

 

Were some horrible play periods during his tenure, but this four season stretch is the worst in the franchise history (and I am counting from 1901.)

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#22 goulik

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:01 AM

Thrylos, I normally see you as well thought out in your comments but this one was easy to fact check and is incorrect. This four year stretch does not come close to 1903-1911 9 year stretch of 85 to 113 loss seasons with only 152 games per year. It is still better than 1954-59 (6 years).

Also, 1939-1942 (4years) would be comparable as would 1946-1951 (5years)

Sometimes we forget how bad the senators were!

Even so, I am firmly in the camp that thinks the Twins should cut Gardenhire and Anderson loose these next five days and see what Molitor can do for the remainder of the year with this staff. His trial run determines the fate of everyone at the end of the year.

I also predict (the previous was not a prediction) that at least two trades will happen this coming week one of which will include either Willingham or Suzuki.

#23 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:35 AM

Were some horrible play periods during his tenure, but this four season stretch is the worst in the franchise history (and I am counting from 1901.)

Oh, come on. That's not even a little bit accurate. Stop with the hyperbole.

The Senators went 38-113 in 1904.

*rolls eyes*
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#24 Thrylos

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:43 AM

Oh, come on. That's not even a little bit accurate. Stop with the hyperbole.

The Senators went 38-113 in 1904.

*rolls eyes*

 

touche. I forgot the fifties.How about the last 65 season's then?;)

 

And I am not talking about single season records.

 

this season is still in progress.The last 3, the Twins' winning % was .389, .407 & .407.  

The .424 or 1905 and .441 of 1908 is higher than those .407s and break a triplet like the latest.So (barely) is that .416 of 1947 and the .435 of 1950.1955-1958 was awful indeed. 

 

But, hyperbole aside, we are talking about once in a lifetime proportions streak here...

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#25 whydidnt

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:46 AM

Since this is "should be", not what will be --

 

Agree with moving all the veterans with expiring contracts that you can get a live body for, Willingham, Correia, etc. Either get Suzuki to agree to a reasonable extension or deal him, too. No sense in wasting the asset at this point.

 

Quit messing around with Darnell, Pino, Johnson, etc. and bring up the guys who might actually be good players on better teams like May and Meyer.

 

Install Pinto or Vargas as the full time DH and see how they do at the Major League level. 

 

We've seen the Twins completely fade in August in September the last couple of years, no sense to make Gardenhire go through it again. Ask him to resign, and if he isn't willing to, replace him anyway. Make sure he brings his bowling buddy, Anderson with him when he leaves.

 

Start looking for a decent replacement GM from outside the organization. Ryan does not seem willing to work with the current financial realities of the league, and his over reliance on scouting vs. results needs to change. --the best GM is able to combine what the stats and scouts both say to find the best players. 

 

Time to change the organizational philosophy of beating guys over the head because they walk someone or try to pull the ball on a regular basis. Some guys are going to walk players, and some guys are going to be pull hitters. Work with their strengths and smooth the rough edges, don't force them to be who they aren't.

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#26 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:00 AM

And I am not talking about single season records.

 

this season is still in progress.The last 3, the Twins' winning % was .389, .407 & .407.  

The .424 or 1905 and .441 of 1908 is higher than those .407s and break a triplet like the latest.So (barely) is that .416 of 1947 and the .435 of 1950.1955-1958 was awful indeed. 

 

But, hyperbole aside, we are talking about once in a lifetime proportions streak here...

 

But you're looking at it completely one-sidedly. If the team was much worse than the 2011-2014 Twins, you ignore it... But if they're one win better, you negate that four year stretch.

 

For example, the Senators had a 206-397 record between 1904-1907. That's a .341 winning percentage over four seasons, which is worse than any single season record posted in Minnesota, much less a four year run.

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#27 Monkeypaws

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:27 AM

I'm all for clearing out the guys on expiring contracts - I just don't expect the Twins will get much for any of them outside of Suzuki.

 

I agree, it is time to roll with youth.


#28 Thrylos

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:28 AM

But you're looking at it completely one-sidedly. If the team was much worse than the 2011-2014 Twins, you ignore it... But if they're one win better, you negate that four year stretch.

 

For example, the Senators had a 206-397 record between 1904-1907. That's a .341 winning percentage over four seasons, which is worse than any single season record posted in Minnesota, much less a four year run.

 

Averaging records across different seasons does not quite work, because in baseball individual seasons count. I will give you an example:It is correct to say that from 1997-1999 the Florida Marlins had a .432 winning percentage. One would assume that they sucked, unless they realize that they won the World Series in the first of these 3 seasons. Might be a philosophical point of discussion, but I don't think how one season's record can spill into another's.Looking at stretches makes more sense to me.You might feel differently :)

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#29 Winston Smith

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:37 AM

Is it really at the point of arguing over levels of bad? When it gets to that point it's time forchanges!

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#30 drjim

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:39 AM

Clean out the vets and play the younger guys seems obvious. This year is actually a little different than the last couple because they have vets in the last year of deals with some value and some players in AAA that can actually replace them.

 

Here is the 25 I would roll out on Aug 1:

 

Pinto Herrmann Fryer

Colabello Parmelee

Dozier

Santana Escobar

Nunez Plouffe

Arcia Fuld

 

Mauer back soon, Hicks, Vargas, Polanco Sept guys

 

SP: Hughes Gibson Johnson May Meyer

LH: Darnell Thielbar Perkins

RH: Deduno Swarzak Pressly Tonkin Pino

 

Nolasco back whenever, Pryor as potential Sept guy

 

13 man staff to protect young starters

OF is ugly

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#31 stringer bell

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:58 AM

I pretty much agree drjim.However, I don't think it's possible to get proper return for all the relief pitchers you suggest to be jettisoned.Perhaps that will have to wait until the off-season.Correia, Willingham and Suzuki can and should go. 

 

While you list only two outfielders, Parm has played more games in the OF than first base and Nuñez has played there quite a bit, as has Herrmann.That is plenty of OFs, all but Arcia are reserves on anything but a team limping to the finish line. 

 

BTW, I would hope that Hicks would compete in the playoffs in Rochester before he is recalled and then only if he thrives.I am hoping Buxton moves to NB within a week and that Rosario is also moved up, but he does have to hit in the meantime.

 

Gee, I forgot about Santana in the OF, as well.There are plenty of outfielders, just not enough good ones. 

Edited by stringer bell, 27 July 2014 - 09:21 AM.


#32 beckmt

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:00 AM

Problem with cleaning out the expiring contracts is Correiaand Willingham will bring nothing in return. Duensing and Burton will bring next to nothing in return.Best bet is to trade Swarzak and move Correia to long relief.I also am from bringing up the kids, but trades have to make sense.Otherwise bring them up in September and clean the roster at the end of the year.

Do not think Terry Ryan is part of the problem, he had nothing in the farm system when he started and has rebuilt it to the second best system in baseball.That system will show up if not next year in 2016, though I think we should go with all kids in 2015 and hope the improvement takes over in 2016.Just have enough veterans around to show the way. 


#33 Rosterman

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:17 AM

Clean out the vets and play the younger guys seems obvious. This year is actually a little different than the last couple because they have vets in the last year of deals with some value and some players in AAA that can actually replace them.

 

Here is the 25 I would roll out on Aug 1:

 

Pinto Herrmann Fryer

Colabello Parmelee

Dozier

Santana Escobar

Nunez Plouffe

Arcia Fuld

 

Mauer back soon, Hicks, Vargas, Polanco Sept guys

 

SP: Hughes Gibson Johnson May Meyer

LH: Darnell Thielbar Perkins

RH: Deduno Swarzak Pressly Tonkin Pino

 

Nolasco back whenever, Pryor as potential Sept guy

 

13 man staff to protect young starters

OF is ugly

Wow! And 8 of these guys probably should be gone from the 40-man over the winter. Whew. Fien still has a year of control. It is a gamble if he is worth more now to someone, or should we keep him and he becomes Burton. Burton and Crain were both kept a year longer than necessary. We also have names like Achter, Thompson, Guerra, Hamburger, Oliveros for bullpen arms this year or next.

 

But anyone of the 40-man gets a September call...even Kepler. Give him a taste of the bigs from the becnh for motivation!

 

See the Twins brought Rodriguez up to AAA. There are enough AAAA vets at New Brit to move into the Rchester roster to keep them playoff contenders.

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#34 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:34 AM

Averaging records across different seasons does not quite work, because in baseball individual seasons count. 

 

Indeed they do, but in this argument you're essentially calling a .250 and a .400 winning percentage the same thing.

 

Whereas I look at that .400 percentage and see a bad team. I look at that .250 percentage and see a team so awful that it makes the 2003 Tigers want to throw a parade.

 

You're equating any season worse than 2011-2014 the equal of 2011-2014 yet if the team is one win better, that entire streak of ineptitude is negated. It's bad analysis because it ignores massive variance on one end in favor of focusing solely on minor variance on the other.

 

To keep it simple:

 

.250 is much farther from .400 than .400 is from .430. When the Senators were bad, they were much worse than the 2011-2014 Twins. When they were better, they were marginally better. Therefore, overall they were worse teams.

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#35 eLee612

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:59 AM

If you had a bag of blue corn tortilla chips (because that's the best kind) that were all stale and chewy, you'd probably realize after a while that the bag is not going to miraculously crisp back up and be ready for the glory of pico and guac. That bag would eventually find its way to the basura and you'd eventually find your way to the grocery store for some new chips.

We need some new chips.

Correia, despite the fact that I love the sound of his name, is probably on the top of my list. Yesterday at a signing my buddy asked Correia if he ices his shoulder, does stim, deep tissue massage, etc. His answer was along the lines of 'Nah, I don't do that. Some players do, but I don't.' I am glad you are so confident in your game and your 5.06 era...

I'd like to see Suzuki stay through the end of the year. Gardy too for that matter, through at least 2015. Get May and Meyer up here for a little playing time. Worst case scenario... they gain experience. Best case scenario... they blow everyone's mind.

Non MLB prayers/projections - I'd like to see the MN girls RBI team make it to the World Series in TX in August and kick butt!
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#36 birdwatcher

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 10:22 AM

The Twins will finish the season with 72-74 wins in my admittedly optimistic view. This record will have exceeded the pre-season expectations of the majority of you, I believe. The value of playing the young guys, in terms of what it does to prepare them for success in 2015, is being a bit overblown, I think. That said, getting value for the vets, which is what Ryan's trying to do, is the right effort to make. Unfortunately, outside of Suzuki, and possibly his surplus of passable relief arms, he's got nothing to work with.

 

If I'm the GM, in the next five days I'm trying to get a return for the obvious candidates, not so much because it's that imperative to play the young guys, but because, at EVERY deadline and over EVERY winter, I'm a potential trader, for VALUE, of my surpluses. I'm not going to DFA guys like Burton, or even Correia, just to appease  some fans. I'm staying focused on the long haul and staying committed to developing my young talent, at the pace my staff sees fit, in the environment most suited for that purpose. I'll live with the fact that my fan base will erode a bit, knowing that I'll always have a core fan base that likes seeing the emergence of the new guys and can live with a 70+ win team in 2014.

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#37 DAM DC Twins Fans

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:17 AM

My two cents...

 

Offer Suzuki a two year 15 mill deal.If he takes it--fine.If not--trade him.

 

Then start fire sale--Willingham, Correia, Nolasco, Plouffe, bullpen guys.We wont get much--but will open spots.Bring up Meyer, May, Hicks (Aaron not DJ), Pinto etc.Play them and see if they are part of the future or not.Trade Mauer if can find takers--his contract is albatross--so probably no takers.

 

2015--go with kids Buxton, Sano, Walker, DJ Hicks, etc.They will take lumps but give them chance.Bring up Dougie or Jake Mauer to manage and the other to coach (along with Watkins and Lucas).

 

Gardy must be gone.Ryan too--with replacement outsde the Twins org.


#38 Brandon

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:40 PM

In the next 5 days we should trade a few wets.I was initially against this but I am seeing too much quit in the team right now and it makes sense to have 1 more go at a top draft pick.I thought we would be a .500 team and we should stand pat and go for a .500 season.I think the team started going down hill when we lost 5 1 run games in a row back when we played Boston and Texas but have done nothing since the all star break.this 10 game stretch was vital and we just quit.With that said we should do the following:

 

1.Extend Terry Ryan.(I know he has a lifetime contract or so but this tells the public we stand behind him)He has made numerous incremental improvements to the team since he has come back. Our Farm System is 1 or 2 in the major leagues right now.We have a base of talent to work with and more on the way in the near future.He actually went out and signed a high priced Free Agent that didn't work out (Nolasco) One that did (Hughes), and one in season (Morales)I am most impressed he went out and brought Morales here.Now he is making the call to trade for prospects and set the team up in the near future.How many prospects will be on the team by the end of next season?we could have May, Meyer, Gibson, and Berrios in the rotation at the end of next season.we still have Hughes and Nolasco too. 

 

2.By August 1rst trade Corriea and a reliever.This should open up spots for some of our other pitchers who are ready to gain experience here. 

 

3. The Twins should start showing minor league highlights on news casts, news papers, and their Jumbo-tron as they are the future of our winning and help sell the fanbase on patience. 

 

4.Not sure on trading Suzuki or not.I guess if they want to put Pinto back up here they should trade him otherwise there is no point other than to secure the top draft pick by losing more games.On Willingham we should trade him if we can replace him in the lineup.I don't remember seeing anyone unless they want to bring up Hicks to see him again. 

 

5.Extend me free tickets to any game I want to see for the rest of my life.(Since we are dreaming here I am going all out) 


#39 drjim

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 01:54 PM

A week from now I'll be watching a different team.Will it be the Twins or the Brewers remains to be seen, but it won't be these Twins. Willingham, Correia, Plouffe, for starters and maybe 3 others should all be on other teams.One week, that's it.And if Plouffe doesn't go, then we might as well keep the rest too, because this team will never be anything but last place fodder til Plouffe is gone.Mark my words. 

 

Why the Plouffe hate?

Papers...business papers.

#40 drjim

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:36 PM

Did anyone listen to Talking Twins this morning with Terry Ryan?

 

May is going to be up pretty soon. Innings issues coming off the injury that have been talked about endlessly.

 

He was a little more slippery with Meyer, but seemed more open to it than I thought he might be.

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