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What Should be Done in the Next Five Days

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#1 stringer bell

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:48 PM

I predicted that tonight would be the Twins virtual low ebb and the product on the field looks helpless right now against a lower tier opponent at home.  I understand that all things go in cycles--the starting pitching has been horrid for a full turn, but they've been better than that.  The team will hit better, especially with runners in scoring position, and they will make more plays in the field.  That doesn't change that this is a bad club and they are right now light years away from contention.

 

There is no reason to keep veterans that won't be around as soon as next year.  Trade or release all of the guys on the last year of their contract--Willingham, Burton, Suzuki, Correia--and play the guys with upside.  We've seen Darnell, Johnson, and Pino make a few starts.  They may or may not be able to fill out a rotation, but the arms that compete with the good arms in the American League are in the minors.  Meyer and May certainly need to get a half dozen or more starts each. 

 

I would also tell Gardy that he was out at the end of the year and if he wanted a job in the organization, he could resign now or wait and be fired at the end of the season.  Personally, I would like to see the Pohlads hire someone from outside the organization to be a new GM, but I would settle for hiring an outsider as Ryan's successor-in-waiting.

 

In my estimation, there isn't a lot of dead wood amongst the position players, except for the expiring contracts.  There are way too many soft tossers and aging hurlers on the staff and that has to change.  I actually think there has been a change in the minors, but it hasn't been reflected yet on the Twins.

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#2 JB_Iowa

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:53 PM

I'd like an interim manager.  Gardenhire really does just look exhausted -- how could anyone have any enthusiasm anymore?

 

Then a GM from outside the organization who has complete authority to hire his own team -- both in baseball ops and as field staff.


#3 TheLeviathan

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:57 PM

It's hard not to have watched the last 9 games and think about the word "quit".  And that would be something new under Gardy, even for these last three years.

 

I know they're just not very good, but they are managing to look even worse.

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#4 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:08 PM

It's hard not to have watched the last 9 games and think about the word "quit".  And that would be something new under Gardy, even for these last three years.
 


Go back and look at their performance in September the last three years.
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#5 Badsmerf

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:20 PM

A sweep at home.... at the hands of the White Sox.... would be tough to swallow. The Twins are playing terrible right now. I have to agree, that it would be tough for Gardy to be enthusiastic while heading for a 4th straight 90 loss season. I don't blame him. I really think he'd be a better manager of a team like the Dodgers or Yankees anyway. 

 

There is too much negativity surrounding this team. Hopefully we will have something to be excited about again soon.

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#6 TwinsCD

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:26 PM

That 5-2 road stretch right before the All-Star break looks like it happened 5 years ago instead of 3 weeks ago.  No one's hitting on a consistent basis and the starting pitching is back to its usual putrid self.  I agree that they need to move all of those names you mentioned but I wouldn't DFA any of them if no other teams wants them in a trade.  Cards signing of AJ killed any thoughts of dealing with them for Suzuki.  Not really sure any other contenders need a catcher.  Willingham's average is so bad, we'd get hardly anything for him.  And I don't know who would really want Correia now.  He was mediocre, at best, as a Padre and a Pirate.  However, if he did go somewhere else and prospered in the last 2 months of the season, that would train my spotlight squarely on Rick Anderson.  I had hoped with everyone's contract up last year that he wouldn't be brought back.  I didn't have a problem with Gardy coming back nor would I have a problem with him continuing.  He didn't have much to work with last year (plus injuries) and this year is looking much the same.  But when you invest the money that they did with this pitching staff and you get crap out of Pelfrey, Nolasco, and Correia, a philosophy needs to change.  Because all 'pitch to contact' is doing is making the outfielders turn and run to the wall to retrieve another double.


#7 mike wants wins

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:52 PM

Fire Gardy and TR.

Trade or cut the old guys.

Bring up some young guys.

Start over.

How many ninety loss seasons does a leadership team get?
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What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)


#8 Thrylos

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:57 PM

How many ninety loss seasons does a leadership team get?

 

 

We shall find out...

 

I am pretty sure that Gardy is on his way out (as soon as the Minors are done so some coaches can come up, or even sooner.) 

 

I am pretty sure that Ryan will be gone too for health reasons

 

Replacing them with Antony and Molitor will do zip for this team though...

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#9 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:07 PM

I do not see Gardenhire or Ryan not being in their current positions next season. Love it or hate it - I do not see it happening.

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There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.


#10 Brad Swanson

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:12 PM

I do not see Gardenhire or Ryan not being in their current positions next season. Love it or hate it - I do not see it happening.

 

I could see one of the two leaving on their own after the season, but I'd be shocked if both were gone.  A franchise that has been slow to change doesn't suddenly decide to completely change everything.  

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#11 SwainZag

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:38 PM

Susuki is dealt to Baltimore day of the deadline for a handful prospects we will all argue about as being good enough.

 

WIllingham won't be dealt before the deadline, but will be in August to Seattle after they strike out in obtaining a RH hitting OF at the deadline.

 

Correia will also be dealt in August to St. Louis for cash considerations of a PTBNL.  

 

With too many relievers out there on the block, Duensing, Fien and Burton stay put.  Though Burton's overall numbers are down, he has been as sharp as ever in his last 17 appearances. 15 IP, 8H, 2ER, 4BB, 13K.

 

I do think Gardy and Ryan will stay put and be in the same positions next season.  I also think we will see May and Meyer in August.

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#12 JeffReboulet

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:44 PM

I guess if I had to prioritize a wish list (instead of "blow the whole damn thing up"), I'd go with:

1. Get all the aging veterans out of here. Release them, trade them for whatever value you can get. Meyer, May, Atcher, Polanco, Pinto, etc all need to be up here and playing. I can stomach watching another 90 loss season with the future....not so much with these stale aging vets.

2. Gardenhire gone. I guess I could live with him through the end of the year (and very likely will), but he is not who I want managing our new young, raw roster. It's time for a change. The fact he was extended two years last year makes my hair fall out even faster than my normal male pattern baldness allows....

(3) GM change. I am unsure on this. I like Ryan, and while he has some definite weaknesses I don't think it necessary for him to resign this year or next, especially if we can get 1 and 2 taken care of.
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#13 Halsey Hall

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:49 PM

A week from now I'll be watching a different team.  Will it be the Twins or the Brewers remains to be seen, but it won't be these Twins.   Willingham, Correia, Plouffe, for starters and maybe 3 others should all be on other teams.  One week, that's it.  And if Plouffe doesn't go, then we might as well keep the rest too, because this team will never be anything but last place fodder til Plouffe is gone.  Mark my words. 

he's gotta go

#14 beckmt

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:55 PM

Depends on who we can get.  Would be nice to trade some of the veterans, but need value in return for most of them.  Outside of Suzuki, do not see who we can get much value for, so do not expect much action.  This is too bad, but just the way I see it.


#15 TKGuy

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:28 PM

I do not see Gardenhire or Ryan not being in their current positions next season. Love it or hate it - I do not see it happening.


How many did TK get?

#16 luckylager

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:14 PM

At this point I hope the organization would just try and give the Rochester fans a playoff competitive team this year. They've suffered as long as we have and at least they have a shot. Maybe best for the prospects to be a part of a winning team rather than this sad mess. Play the season out with whatever we aren't able to trade off. Clean house in the off season. TheTwins coaching staff and front office needs a major airing out not just another reshuffling. This fan's interest level is at an all-time low. Hopefully just the darkness before the dawn. 


#17 Kwak

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:01 AM

I don't think much will change.  Ryan has Pohlad's confidence that he can cheaply fix the team's problems and put a 75-win team on the field.  Sadly, 75 wins appears to be the new standard of quality for the Twins.


#18 old nurse

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:39 AM

We shall find out...

 

I am pretty sure that Gardy is on his way out (as soon as the Minors are done so some coaches can come up, or even sooner.) 

 

I am pretty sure that Ryan will be gone too for health reasons

 

Replacing them with Antony and Molitor will do zip for this team though...

 

What health reasons? The SCC was treated. Is there a nother condition that your inside information has slipped to you?


#19 Thrylos

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:52 AM

How many did TK get?

 

One (1).  After the threat for contraction was gone, TK had a single season and was gone.  If you are going to contract the team who cares who the manager in the last season is and what the team's record would be...  

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#20 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:27 AM

TK retired if I remember right.  He wasn't forced out.  And let's not forget that there were some periods of pretty poor play during his tenure as well. 

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#21 Thrylos

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:33 AM

TK retired if I remember right.  He wasn't forced out.  And let's not forget that there were some periods of pretty poor play during his tenure as well. 

 

Were some horrible play periods during his tenure, but this four season stretch is the worst in the franchise history (and I am counting from 1901.)

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#22 goulik

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:01 AM

Thrylos, I normally see you as well thought out in your comments but this one was easy to fact check and is incorrect. This four year stretch does not come close to 1903-1911 9 year stretch of 85 to 113 loss seasons with only 152 games per year. It is still better than 1954-59 (6 years).

Also, 1939-1942 (4years) would be comparable as would 1946-1951 (5years)

Sometimes we forget how bad the senators were!

Even so, I am firmly in the camp that thinks the Twins should cut Gardenhire and Anderson loose these next five days and see what Molitor can do for the remainder of the year with this staff. His trial run determines the fate of everyone at the end of the year.

I also predict (the previous was not a prediction) that at least two trades will happen this coming week one of which will include either Willingham or Suzuki.

#23 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:35 AM

Were some horrible play periods during his tenure, but this four season stretch is the worst in the franchise history (and I am counting from 1901.)

Oh, come on. That's not even a little bit accurate. Stop with the hyperbole.

The Senators went 38-113 in 1904.

*rolls eyes*
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#24 Thrylos

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:43 AM

Oh, come on. That's not even a little bit accurate. Stop with the hyperbole.

The Senators went 38-113 in 1904.

*rolls eyes*

 

touche.   I forgot the fifties.  How about the last 65 season's then?  ;)

 

And I am not talking about single season records.

 

this season is still in progress.  The last 3, the Twins' winning % was .389, .407 & .407.  

The .424 or 1905 and .441 of 1908 is higher than those .407s and break a triplet like the latest.  So (barely) is that .416 of 1947 and the .435 of 1950.  1955-1958 was awful indeed. 

 

But, hyperbole aside, we are talking about once in a lifetime proportions streak here...

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#25 whydidnt

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:46 AM

Since this is "should be", not what will be --

 

Agree with moving all the veterans with expiring contracts that you can get a live body for, Willingham, Correia, etc. Either get Suzuki to agree to a reasonable extension or deal him, too. No sense in wasting the asset at this point.

 

Quit messing around with Darnell, Pino, Johnson, etc. and bring up the guys who might actually be good players on better teams like May and Meyer.

 

Install Pinto or Vargas as the full time DH and see how they do at the Major League level. 

 

We've seen the Twins completely fade in August in September the last couple of years, no sense to make Gardenhire go through it again. Ask him to resign, and if he isn't willing to, replace him anyway. Make sure he brings his bowling buddy, Anderson with him when he leaves.

 

Start looking for a decent replacement GM from outside the organization. Ryan does not seem willing to work with the current financial realities of the league, and his over reliance on scouting vs. results needs to change. --the best GM is able to combine what the stats and scouts both say to find the best players. 

 

Time to change the organizational philosophy of beating guys over the head because they walk someone or try to pull the ball on a regular basis. Some guys are going to walk players, and some guys are going to be pull hitters. Work with their strengths and smooth the rough edges, don't force them to be who they aren't.

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#26 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:00 AM

And I am not talking about single season records.

 

this season is still in progress.  The last 3, the Twins' winning % was .389, .407 & .407.  

The .424 or 1905 and .441 of 1908 is higher than those .407s and break a triplet like the latest.  So (barely) is that .416 of 1947 and the .435 of 1950.  1955-1958 was awful indeed. 

 

But, hyperbole aside, we are talking about once in a lifetime proportions streak here...

 

But you're looking at it completely one-sidedly. If the team was much worse than the 2011-2014 Twins, you ignore it... But if they're one win better, you negate that four year stretch.

 

For example, the Senators had a 206-397 record between 1904-1907. That's a .341 winning percentage over four seasons, which is worse than any single season record posted in Minnesota, much less a four year run.

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#27 Monkeypaws

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:27 AM

I'm all for clearing out the guys on expiring contracts - I just don't expect the Twins will get much for any of them outside of Suzuki.

 

I agree, it is time to roll with youth.


#28 Thrylos

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:28 AM

But you're looking at it completely one-sidedly. If the team was much worse than the 2011-2014 Twins, you ignore it... But if they're one win better, you negate that four year stretch.

 

For example, the Senators had a 206-397 record between 1904-1907. That's a .341 winning percentage over four seasons, which is worse than any single season record posted in Minnesota, much less a four year run.

 

Averaging records across different seasons does not quite work, because in baseball individual seasons count.   I will give you an example:  It is correct to say that from 1997-1999 the Florida Marlins had a .432 winning percentage.   One would assume that they sucked, unless they realize that they won the World Series in the first of these 3 seasons.   Might be a philosophical point of discussion, but I don't think how one season's record can spill into another's.  Looking at stretches makes more sense to me.  You might feel differently :)

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#29 Winston Smith

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:37 AM

Is it really at the point of arguing over levels of bad? When it gets to that point it's time for  changes!

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May all our prospects be All Stars and the beer be free.


#30 drjim

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:39 AM

Clean out the vets and play the younger guys seems obvious. This year is actually a little different than the last couple because they have vets in the last year of deals with some value and some players in AAA that can actually replace them.

 

Here is the 25 I would roll out on Aug 1:

 

Pinto Herrmann Fryer

Colabello Parmelee

Dozier

Santana Escobar

Nunez Plouffe

Arcia Fuld

 

Mauer back soon, Hicks, Vargas, Polanco Sept guys

 

SP: Hughes Gibson Johnson May Meyer

LH: Darnell Thielbar Perkins

RH: Deduno Swarzak Pressly Tonkin Pino

 

Nolasco back whenever, Pryor as potential Sept guy

 

13 man staff to protect young starters

OF is ugly

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