Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

From MinnCentric


Photo

Article: Trade Candidate: Josh Willingham

  • Please log in to reply
45 replies to this topic

#21 stringer bell

stringer bell

    Shaking the rust off................my golf game

  • Twins Mods
  • 6,214 posts
  • LocationZumbrota MN

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:14 PM

Since the return for Willingham wouldn't be much more than the $2.3M he will be owed for the balance of the season, I don't see much need to trade him by July 31st.He almost certainly would clear waivers and the Twins could send him to anyone in August.A hot streak for Hammer or an injury to a contender would make a spot available and maybe net a prospect in addition to the salary dump. 


#22 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,157 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:31 PM

Why on earth would you just cut Willy?He might not be here next year but that doesn't mean that you just cut one of your best hitters.And the twins don't have that many prospects that are being blocked.They have already opened up playing time for the immortal duo of Colabello/Parmelee. 

 

At least try to get something for him.It doesn't have to be a lot but at least get something.

I look forward to the day that a pitching prospect is truly blocked by good pitchers.


#23 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,476 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:56 PM

I wanted to reply but I'm too focused on Willingham: One of our best hitters.

Get a bag of balls for him, this desperate need to focus on meager returns vs. no returns perplexes me. Meager + salary dump + roster space > Further putrid results for two months before parting ways.

#24 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,157 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:43 PM

I wanted to reply but I'm too focused on Willingham: One of our best hitters.

Get a bag of balls for him, this desperate need to focus on meager returns vs. no returns perplexes me. Meager + salary dump + roster space > Further putrid results for two months before parting ways.

I could change it to: one of our only good hitters.And the benefit is that we open up more playing time for Colabello, Parmelee and Nunez.Awesome.go for 100 losses.

 

this isn't like DFA'ing Correia who isn't actually good and would guarantee that at least Mays would be up.

I look forward to the day that a pitching prospect is truly blocked by good pitchers.


#25 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,476 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:58 PM

I could change it to: one of our only good hitters.And the benefit is that we open up more playing time for Colabello, Parmelee and Nunez.Awesome.go for 100 losses.

 

this isn't like DFA'ing Correia who isn't actually good and would guarantee that at least Mays would be up.

 

Right now Willingham is about a 1 WAR player.  Nunez and Parmelee are basically replacement level players.  Colabello -1 WAR.  So dropping Willingham isn't exactly throwing in the towel.  

 

It's just shedding a guy for some kind of value before releasing him for none.  Way I see it is maybe, by some chance, we'd get to see some more of Pinto or even Vargas.  I'll take that hope.


#26 Kirby_waved_at_me

Kirby_waved_at_me

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,070 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:56 AM

Really hope the Yankees, Dodgers, Blue Jays - somebody, anybody - offers a prospect for Willingham so the Twins can get a player back for him.

 

That being said, I would hold out for more than the Morales trade. Hammer has put up good numbers (not including the Batting Average) this year when he's been healthy. He's valuable to the Twins' lineup, so he should be valuable someone else's lineup too.


#27 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,157 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:23 AM

Right now Willingham is about a 1 WAR player.  Nunez and Parmelee are basically replacement level players.  Colabello -1 WAR.  So dropping Willingham isn't exactly throwing in the towel.  

 

It's just shedding a guy for some kind of value before releasing him for none.  Way I see it is maybe, by some chance, we'd get to see some more of Pinto or even Vargas.  I'll take that hope.

 

The problem is that basically just dumping one of the best players in the lineup sends the wrong message to the team.Somebody needs to be kicking their butts and motivating them instead of gutting the team for nothing of value.People like to think that players just perform to their level regardless but losing is contagious and dumping productive players to play marginal prospects like Parmelee and Colabello reinforces that. 

 

If there was any interest in seeing Pinto or Vargas then they could just dump Colabello and parmelee.There's almost no chance of these guys becoming productive MLB'ers.At least Willingham is productive now.now I'm perfectly fine if Willy is traded for anything useful.Morales wasn't traded for anything useful but he sucked while he was here.

I look forward to the day that a pitching prospect is truly blocked by good pitchers.


#28 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,476 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:19 AM

The problem is that basically just dumping one of the best players in the lineup sends the wrong message to the team.  

 

I'm sorry, but what message are we worried about?  "We're not very good and we're not contending"?  I fail to see how that is going to crush anyone.  Especially since Wilingham is marginally better than his replacements and he's gone in two months.

 

I'm tired of worrying about what "messages" we send.  I'm glad to hear Ryan saying much the same thing about prospect development.  


#29 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,157 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:33 AM

You have greatly misused statistics if you only believe that Willy is marginally better than Nunez or Colabello.

 

The message that this team shouldn't be sending is giving away a good player in order to play a much worse player in his place.Players understand if a veteran like Willy is traded but if there is no interest in getting something back and there is nobody with a future to replace him then it sends a message that we are trying to make this team as bad as we can but we expect you to play hard.

 

I also think it's hypocritical if people are both calling for Gardy to be replaced and judging him by his 90+ loss record.The road to 90-100 losses is this strategy of giving away anybody that is good but 30+.Trading them for a decent prospect or to open up playing time for a good prospect is one thing but giving them away for nothing and replacing them with Colabello is dumb.

I look forward to the day that a pitching prospect is truly blocked by good pitchers.


#30 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,896 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:42 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Morales was retained, had he been hitting better, even if our overall team W-L record was the same.  There is some value in having a mildly productive vet in the lineup, particularly if they have a much higher floor than the suspects that might replace them (i.e. Colabello and Parmelee).

 

That's kind of where Willingham is now.  Getting a prospect back would be great, but if it's just a roster spot or salary relief, who cares?  As long as Arcia and Santana are playing everyday, I don't see anybody else who needs to get into the lineup right away.

 

As it was, Morales was more like Kubel -- showing a really low floor.  So it was worth it to unload him (or in Kubel's modest salary case, cut him).  Willingham isn't great, but he's better than that right now.


#31 John Bonnes

John Bonnes

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 5,268 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:48 AM

You have greatly misused statistics if you only believe that Willy is marginally better than Nunez or Colabello.

 

The message that this team shouldn't be sending is giving away a good player in order to play a much worse player in his place.Players understand if a veteran like Willy is traded but if there is no interest in getting something back and there is nobody with a future to replace him then it sends a message that we are trying to make this team as bad as we can but we expect you to play hard.

 

I think baseball players are a little more accustomed to the business of baseball than that. They understand that Willingham is gone after this year. They understand that the logical move is to trade him for a prospect right now. I sure didn't get any sense of outrage when they made a similar trade last week, shipping Morales for a minor league reliever. Did you?. I think they get it. 

 

That said, I think we might be underrating Willingham's appeal a little. He's hitting .219, but he's got a .360 OBP and a 782 OPS. He's slugging .481 over the last 2 weeks. He's not an all-star, but plenty of teams could find room for him, even in a corner outfield spot. 


#32 Cris E

Cris E

    Member

  • Members
  • 101 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:58 AM

That said, I think we might be underrating Willingham's appeal a little. He's hitting .219, but he's got a .360 OBP and a 782 OPS. He's slugging .481 over the last 2 weeks. He's not an all-star, but plenty of teams could find room for him, even in a corner outfield spot. 

 

A good two weeks plus a track record of decent power plus a short and cheap contract makes him a decent bet for a team eyeing a stretch run.He'll be worth something to someone: more than a low A scrub, less than a Top 20 talent.


#33 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,476 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:03 AM

You have greatly misused statistics if you only believe that Willy is marginally better than Nunez or Colabello.

 

The message that this team shouldn't be sending is giving away a good player in order to play a much worse player in his place.Players understand if a veteran like Willy is traded but if there is no interest in getting something back and there is nobody with a future to replace him then it sends a message that we are trying to make this team as bad as we can but we expect you to play hard.

 

I also think it's hypocritical if people are both calling for Gardy to be replaced and judging him by his 90+ loss record.The road to 90-100 losses is this strategy of giving away anybody that is good but 30+.Trading them for a decent prospect or to open up playing time for a good prospect is one thing but giving them away for nothing and replacing them with Colabello is dumb.

 

Except that they can replace him with Pinto.  Or Vargas.  Or other options as well.  Clutching to a guy like Willingham is unnecessary on every level.

 

I can't change that Willingham isn't very good.  Replacing him with other players that aren't very good isn't going to crush this team.  They aren't very good with or without him.  

 

Move on, have some incentive to play the kids.

  • mike wants wins likes this

#34 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,737 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:27 AM

You have greatly misused statistics if you only believe that Willy is marginally better than Nunez or Colabello.

 

The message that this team shouldn't be sending is giving away a good player in order to play a much worse player in his place.Players understand if a veteran like Willy is traded but if there is no interest in getting something back and there is nobody with a future to replace him then it sends a message that we are trying to make this team as bad as we can but we expect you to play hard.

 

I also think it's hypocritical if people are both calling for Gardy to be replaced and judging him by his 90+ loss record.The road to 90-100 losses is this strategy of giving away anybody that is good but 30+.Trading them for a decent prospect or to open up playing time for a good prospect is one thing but giving them away for nothing and replacing them with Colabello is dumb.

I am a little torn on the expectation. I think if a team in the AL has a need at DH he may have some value.It is kind of like Jake Peavy, his ERA was actually higher than KC's at the time of the trade and he snagged two prospects, one 75 overall.With Peavy and to a certain extent Willingham, we may get a premium because of what he has done. 

 

But when you look at the teams in contention, none have a glaring hole at DH and I can respect nobody rushing to have Josh play LF for them.


#35 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,906 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 30 July 2014 - 07:03 PM

Good to see one of our assets doing well going into the deadline. With the shortage of bats he should bring back more than salary relief.

Papers...business papers.

#36 drock2190

drock2190

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 504 posts

Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:16 PM

Good to see one of our assets doing well going into the deadline. With the shortage of bats he should bring back more than salary relief.

 

Except the Twins arent dealing him per mlbtraderumors.com


#37 jorgenswest

jorgenswest

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,346 posts

Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:53 PM

They should have let the Orioles take his contract last year.

#38 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,906 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 31 July 2014 - 06:29 AM

They should have let the Orioles take his contract last year.

 

So the Pohlads can pocket more money?

Papers...business papers.

#39 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 10,168 posts

Posted 31 July 2014 - 06:41 AM

so, they aren't trading him? What is the point of stocking the farm system, if you won't call up players?


#40 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Senior Member

  • Twins Mods
  • 5,766 posts

Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:04 AM

The report is that they aren't dealing him before July 31st, not that they aren't dealing him at all.They are almost surely gambling that he will increase his value in the next month and move him after the deadline. 

 

It is frustrating that every year bad teams have good talent that they can move for nice returns at the deadline, and every year the Twins are terrible and have next to nothing to move.It does speak poorly of the Twins front office that they rarely have any assets to swap this time of year, of course it speaks just as poorly about the field staffs of the other losing teams.If the Red Sox, Cubs, Padres, Rangers and Indians have players this coveted, they should probably be playing better baseball.

 

On a somewhat related note, Cleveland moved Justin Masterson and is close to dealing Asdrubal Cabrera.That takes some guts seeing as they are only a half game under .500.Can anyone imagine the Twins doing that, even if it's the smart move?