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Article: Trade Candidate: Josh Willingham

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#1 Seth Stohs

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:54 AM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...Josh-Willingham

#2 pierre75275

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 12:02 PM

any chance cleveland might give up their b comp round pick for him?

#3 Blackjack

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 12:37 PM

What would a C class prospect be like?? Can you give me a comparable name from the Twins farm teams that you would consider a C prospect?

Thanks!!

#4 34skidoo

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 12:45 PM

What would a C class prospect be like?? Can you give me a comparable name from the Twins farm teams that you would consider a C prospect?

Thanks!!


MLB Trade Rumors is reporting the Twins have just traded Kendrys Morales for pitcher Stephen Pryor.

#5 DJL44

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 01:31 PM

What would a C class prospect be like?? Can you give me a comparable name from the Twins farm teams that you would consider a C prospect?


Niko Goodrum, Aaron Slegers. Someone with a shot but not likely to contribute. They can probably get a C+ prospect for Willingham (Travis Harrison, Zach Jones)

#6 iTwins

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 02:53 PM

In 2012, when Willingham was putting up career best number, I recall the reported returns being nothing more than a back end starter or long reliever. The Twins wanted more and chose to hold on to him. (Questionable decision at the time and with the benefit of hindsight, it's easy to say it was the wrong decision - but let's ignore that part... spilled milk and whatnot)

Two years later, with worse numbers and an expiring contract, I'd think the Twins should be happy if they can get a prospect in "C" range. Any depth would be a welcome addition at this point. Too bad Willingham had a down year, I was hoping he'd be able to build some value if not to help the Twins offense, then to at least earn a decent prospect in return.

#7 Brandon

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:03 PM

We also need to remember that in 2012 was Willingham's first season with the Twins after signing a 3 year contract and he wasn't interested in being dealt. What kind of message would that send other free agents in the future if they are thinking of signing a long term contract here? Probably the same things as prospects are now considering when signing with the Astros, and free agents think before taking a physical for the Orioles (see Gant Balfour contract negation last year).

#8 iTwins

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:39 PM

We also need to remember that in 2012 was Willingham's first season with the Twins after signing a 3 year contract and he wasn't interested in being dealt. What kind of message would that send other free agents in the future if they are thinking of signing a long term contract here? Probably the same things as prospects are now considering when signing with the Astros, and free agents think before taking a physical for the Orioles (see Gant Balfour contract negation last year).


Right, and for their part the Twins weren't really interested in trading Willingham in 2012 (likely due to that same thinking). The second point on this MLBTraderumors story from '12 sort of backs that thinking up.

However, my point was more towards his value. There were other teams actively interested in trading for a red hot Willingham in 2012 - and the return piece looked to be a number 4 starter at best. If rival GMs were down on his value THEN, what's his real value now? That's my concern. A C level prospect would be a good return - IMO.

#9 JB_Iowa

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:44 PM

Gossip Central:



#10 Dantes929

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 04:14 PM

Of course the time to trade him was after his career year in 2012 but since he had just had his career year no one really wanted to part with him. I went into the offseason that year thinking it would be smart to trade him but then being pretty nonplussed to here what was allegedly being offered. The game winning home run was nice but compared to what hopefully will be either Santana, Hicks or Rosario his defense cost us more than a game this year. I like the guy but he just hasn't been worth it the last two years.

#11 jaimedude2

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 04:26 PM

[quote name='JB_Iowa']Gossip Central:


  • Mike Berardino ‏@MikeBerardino 2m
    Terry Ryan is having a talk with Josh Willingham now during BP. Didn't last long. Serious looks.

    Don't be shocked if the Twins just cut Willingham. At this point they would have to take back all of his salary just to get a class C prospect back. Teams may be looking for right handed bats but nobody is going to beat down the Twins door to take on Willinghams remaining salary. Twins likely will put him on August release waivers and hope that someone picks him up for a salary dump. A slow left fielder with a bad back and knees isn't bringing any prospects back.

#12 Otwins

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:54 PM

If the Twins were contending I think you would be right. They would just cut him. But in the situation they are in I think they should hang on another month trying to trade him. What's another loss or two.

#13 DiscGolfer

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:21 AM

Can they get a bag of shiny new baseballs for him?

#14 uigalbi

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 01:55 AM

how about sign him with 1-year extension and trade him next year? He's OBP is not bad and doing better than last year. He may do better next year so that he'll be more valuable.

#15 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:46 AM

Based on Morales' return, I'd imagine Hammer is going to get a similar return. He costs a bit less, but is producing about the same. Neither are going to be premium defenders. It's too late for his bat to heat up as well. I'm guessing a conditional pick at best based on his performance. Not sure I see the DFA option. He's not blocking anyone.

#16 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:47 PM

MLBTR is reporting that the Yankees are interested in hammer.


#17 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:32 PM

Had a chance to look over the Yankee's list. They have a few guys that might be of interest. I'm guessing Greg Bird or Gary Sanchez is asking too much. They have a lot of B-/C+ guys that look kind of interesting. I'd really like Ian Clarkin.






http://www.minorleag...spects-for-2014

#18 CRArko

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:33 PM

Had a chance to look over the Yankee's list. They have a few guys that might be of interest. I'm guessing Greg Bird or Gary Sanchez is asking too much. They have a lot of B-/C+ guys that look kind of interesting. I'd really like Ian Clarkin.http://www.minorleag...spects-for-2014


They probably offer A-Rod.
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#19 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:42 PM

I wonder if you ask for Murphy and settle for Cervelli. The Yankees have plenty of catchers and either of them would help bridge the gap until the Twins develop one. Both are under team control (i.e. cheap) and offer enough to be part of the re-build. If the team decides to bring Suzuki back, both have excelled at being a backup.

#20 jorgenswest

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:51 PM

I would more than settle for Cervelli.

I don't think that will be the offer. I think it will be a guy on the fringe of the 40 man roster. Austin Romine, Preston Claiborne or maybe Zoilo Almonte.

If they can't get a Willingham cheap, they will simply pursue a better player. MLBTR mentions Byrd and Rios.

#21 stringer bell

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:14 PM

Since the return for Willingham wouldn't be much more than the $2.3M he will be owed for the balance of the season, I don't see much need to trade him by July 31st.  He almost certainly would clear waivers and the Twins could send him to anyone in August.  A hot streak for Hammer or an injury to a contender would make a spot available and maybe net a prospect in addition to the salary dump. 


#22 kab21

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:31 PM

Why on earth would you just cut Willy?  He might not be here next year but that doesn't mean that you just cut one of your best hitters.  And the twins don't have that many prospects that are being blocked.  They have already opened up playing time for the immortal duo of Colabello/Parmelee. 

 

At least try to get something for him.  It doesn't have to be a lot but at least get something.


#23 TheLeviathan

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:56 PM

I wanted to reply but I'm too focused on Willingham: One of our best hitters.

Get a bag of balls for him, this desperate need to focus on meager returns vs. no returns perplexes me. Meager + salary dump + roster space > Further putrid results for two months before parting ways.

#24 kab21

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:43 PM

I wanted to reply but I'm too focused on Willingham: One of our best hitters.

Get a bag of balls for him, this desperate need to focus on meager returns vs. no returns perplexes me. Meager + salary dump + roster space > Further putrid results for two months before parting ways.

I could change it to: one of our only good hitters.  And the benefit is that we open up more playing time for Colabello, Parmelee and Nunez.  Awesome.  go for 100 losses.

 

this isn't like DFA'ing Correia who isn't actually good and would guarantee that at least Mays would be up.


#25 TheLeviathan

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:58 PM

I could change it to: one of our only good hitters.  And the benefit is that we open up more playing time for Colabello, Parmelee and Nunez.  Awesome.  go for 100 losses.

 

this isn't like DFA'ing Correia who isn't actually good and would guarantee that at least Mays would be up.

 

Right now Willingham is about a 1 WAR player.  Nunez and Parmelee are basically replacement level players.  Colabello -1 WAR.  So dropping Willingham isn't exactly throwing in the towel.  

 

It's just shedding a guy for some kind of value before releasing him for none.  Way I see it is maybe, by some chance, we'd get to see some more of Pinto or even Vargas.  I'll take that hope.


#26 Kirby_waved_at_me

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:56 AM

Really hope the Yankees, Dodgers, Blue Jays - somebody, anybody - offers a prospect for Willingham so the Twins can get a player back for him.

 

That being said, I would hold out for more than the Morales trade. Hammer has put up good numbers (not including the Batting Average) this year when he's been healthy. He's valuable to the Twins' lineup, so he should be valuable someone else's lineup too.


#27 kab21

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:23 AM

Right now Willingham is about a 1 WAR player.  Nunez and Parmelee are basically replacement level players.  Colabello -1 WAR.  So dropping Willingham isn't exactly throwing in the towel.  

 

It's just shedding a guy for some kind of value before releasing him for none.  Way I see it is maybe, by some chance, we'd get to see some more of Pinto or even Vargas.  I'll take that hope.

 

The problem is that basically just dumping one of the best players in the lineup sends the wrong message to the team.  Somebody needs to be kicking their butts and motivating them instead of gutting the team for nothing of value.  People like to think that players just perform to their level regardless but losing is contagious and dumping productive players to play marginal prospects like Parmelee and Colabello reinforces that. 

 

If there was any interest in seeing Pinto or Vargas then they could just dump Colabello and parmelee.  There's almost no chance of these guys becoming productive MLB'ers.  At least Willingham is productive now.  now I'm perfectly fine if Willy is traded for anything useful.  Morales wasn't traded for anything useful but he sucked while he was here.


#28 TheLeviathan

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:19 AM

The problem is that basically just dumping one of the best players in the lineup sends the wrong message to the team.  

 

I'm sorry, but what message are we worried about?  "We're not very good and we're not contending"?  I fail to see how that is going to crush anyone.  Especially since Wilingham is marginally better than his replacements and he's gone in two months.

 

I'm tired of worrying about what "messages" we send.  I'm glad to hear Ryan saying much the same thing about prospect development.  


#29 kab21

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:33 AM

You have greatly misused statistics if you only believe that Willy is marginally better than Nunez or Colabello.

 

The message that this team shouldn't be sending is giving away a good player in order to play a much worse player in his place.  Players understand if a veteran like Willy is traded but if there is no interest in getting something back and there is nobody with a future to replace him then it sends a message that we are trying to make this team as bad as we can but we expect you to play hard.

 

I also think it's hypocritical if people are both calling for Gardy to be replaced and judging him by his 90+ loss record.  The road to 90-100 losses is this strategy of giving away anybody that is good but 30+.  Trading them for a decent prospect or to open up playing time for a good prospect is one thing but giving them away for nothing and replacing them with Colabello is dumb.


#30 spycake

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:42 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Morales was retained, had he been hitting better, even if our overall team W-L record was the same.  There is some value in having a mildly productive vet in the lineup, particularly if they have a much higher floor than the suspects that might replace them (i.e. Colabello and Parmelee).

 

That's kind of where Willingham is now.  Getting a prospect back would be great, but if it's just a roster spot or salary relief, who cares?  As long as Arcia and Santana are playing everyday, I don't see anybody else who needs to get into the lineup right away.

 

As it was, Morales was more like Kubel -- showing a really low floor.  So it was worth it to unload him (or in Kubel's modest salary case, cut him).  Willingham isn't great, but he's better than that right now.