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Article: The Twins Are Stuck In Their Comfort Zone

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#141 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:58 PM

Would the.Pohlads ever sell? Is there a worse run.org.in.MLB today? ...


No they wouldn't, and undoubtedly there is :)

You are right about the Big Poppi fiasco but I think Terry is already on record as regretting how that turned out. He might also be regretting the Revere trade at this point; who knows.

Back to Pohlad -- it's possible he's been embargoing his anger until after the All Star Game events, and is now prepared to force action. We'll see. This is not a team with poor talent. Not too long ago some people were predicting something like 85 wins and talking wild card. Morales was signed. As many as six guys were discussed as All Stars. Yet here we are again.

#142 jokin

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:27 PM

He hasn't shown much initiative in this decade and not much creativity, after the Span trade, which the Nats had contemplated for quite some time previously (credit goes to Ryan for holding out for Meyer) , the Revere trade proposal came out of the blue from the Phillies. And there are new and creative ways to derive value that he hasn't even explored yet.

Such as trading for international bonus pool money.

Trading for non-expired contracts in the August waiver period.

Trading for a competitive balance pick.


Add another one from this evening. Putting a successful claim in on AJ would have kept him off the market and added the Cardinals to the bidding war for Suzuki.

Edited by jokin, 25 July 2014 - 11:22 PM.


#143 Kwak

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:47 PM

Add another one from this evening. Offering perhaps a mutual option to AJ for next year might have kept him off the market and added the Cardinals to the bidding war for Suzuki.

It has been reported that AJ has signed with StL.

#144 jokin

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:21 PM

It has been reported that AJ has signed with StL.


Yeah, that's why I said they should have blocked that move.

#145 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:02 AM

He hasn't shown much initiative in this decade and not much creativity, after the Span trade, which the Nats had contemplated for quite some time previously (credit goes to Ryan for holding out for Meyer) , the Revere trade proposal came out of the blue from the Phillies. And there are new and creative ways to derive value that he hasn't even explored yet.

Such as trading for international bonus pool money.

Trading for non-expired contracts in the August waiver period.

Trading for a competitive balance pick.


Because you've had an inside look at all of his trade options over the last few years? At what point does this just become a witch hunt? The Twins haven't exactly had a ton of value to part ways with over the last couple of years, and like anything else, making a trade requires 2 to do it, and they have to match up in terms of need.

Personally, I don't get why you even site competitive balance picks and bonus money. The Twins have shown far more success scouting the minor leagues of other teams and finding a gem that way. Why mess with something that works? And exactly why would a 90 loss team be looking to add non-expired contracts in August? If the contract was decent, the other team is going to pull the guy back. That's how August trades work.

I really don't care how Ryan managed to acquire Meyer and May. Bottom line is that he waited out the Nats until they gave something of value, and when the Phillies called he jumped on it and got something of value. The team with the leverage is the one receiving the phone call. Ryan did what he needed to do to get value.

You original post was slamming Ryan for trades that were omitted. When I pointed out the value in not making a trade, you've changed it to a lack of creativity. I get that you don't like Ryan. That's fine, but this is just a witch hunt.

#146 jokin

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:52 AM

Because you've had an inside look at all of his trade options over the last few years? At what point does this just become a witch hunt? The Twins haven't exactly had a ton of value to part ways with over the last couple of years, and like anything else, making a trade requires 2 to do it, and they have to match up in terms of need.

Personally, I don't get why you even site competitive balance picks and bonus money. The Twins have shown far more success scouting the minor leagues of other teams and finding a gem that way. Why mess with something that works? And exactly why would a 90 loss team be looking to add non-expired contracts in August? If the contract was decent, the other team is going to pull the guy back. That's how August trades work.

I really don't care how Ryan managed to acquire Meyer and May. Bottom line is that he waited out the Nats until they gave something of value, and when the Phillies called he jumped on it and got something of value. The team with the leverage is the one receiving the phone call. Ryan did what he needed to do to get value.

You original post was slamming Ryan for trades that were omitted. When I pointed out the value in not making a trade, you've changed it to a lack of creativity. I get that you don't like Ryan. That's fine, but this is just a witch hunt.


I like Terry Ryan. I hold nothing personal against him. I don't get why when you disagree with the direction the team has headed in this decade and point out things in factual basis, that you are termed a "hater" and out on a "witch hunt."

You mentioned the Nats trade, I mentioned the context of the trade and gave credit to Ryan for holding out for Meyer and doing what he needed to do. Is that your idea of a "witch hunt"? And finding the need to mention that phrase twice? Bordering on libel.

I factually pointed out that Ryan has been a passive, and a conservative trader. There is merit in not getting taken to the cleaners, but I changed nothing in pointing out that failures of omission can be just as costly as failure of commission. One example- Was signing Abreu a gamble? Sure it was, have the Twins lost big-time in not taking that calculated gamble? Big time

Edited by jokin, 26 July 2014 - 08:11 AM.


#147 jokin

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:09 AM

The Twins haven't exactly had a ton of value to part ways with over the last couple of years, and like anything else, making a trade requires 2 to do it, and they have to match up in terms of need.

Personally, I don't get why you even site competitive balance picks and bonus money. The Twins have shown far more success scouting the minor leagues of other teams and finding a gem that way. Why mess with something that works? And exactly why would a 90 loss team be looking to add non-expired contracts in August? If the contract was decent, the other team is going to pull the guy back. That's how August trades work.


You somewhat contradicted yourself here. If the Twins are successful at acquiring a slew of these minor league gems, then they should be able to take advantage in August, armed with plenty of prospect trade bait and then putting the first claims that their 90+ loss record gives them and using the exclusive negotiating rights with the intent to acquire proven major league talent (often available because teams are motivated salary dumpers) instead of competing with the whole market in the offseason for FAs, where they continue to claim "they can't give their money away."

#148 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 01:16 PM

You somewhat contradicted yourself here. If the Twins are successful at acquiring a slew of these minor league gems, then they should be able to take advantage in August, armed with plenty of prospect trade bait and then putting the first claims that their 90+ loss record gives them and using the exclusive negotiating rights with the intent to acquire proven major league talent (often available because teams are motivated salary dumpers) instead of competing with the whole market in the offseason for FAs, where they continue to claim "they can't give their money away."


Jokin, my reason for calling this a witch hunt is because you keep changing your criteria for your dislike of Ryan, especially when it's shown that you are being unreasonable. My original point was asking where Ryan had ever been schooled in a trade. You referenced trades that were omitted. I showed that he trades when he gets value. You then countered with creativity, citing a bunch of stuff that most teams aren't doing. I point out that scouting talent in other team's systems is something that Ryan excels at, and then you run back to August trades as if you have no understanding how August trades work...

Very little of meaning happens in August for good reason. Every one gets put on waivers, and the waiving team can call back any player that's claimed, so Miguel Cabrera isn't coming here in an August deal, as Detroit would call him back. The ones that don't get claimed are the contracts that no one wants. I don't think anyone would be thrilled if the Twins claimed Prince Fielder right now. He wouldn't get called back and he'd be a Minnesota Twin, at an impossible price with virtually no production to go with it. The only guys getting claimed are ones that fall in the middle somewhere, and the waiving team has every right to pull them back if they cannot agree on a trade. There's only one team to negotiate with at this point, which makes any kind of value difficult to get. If they make it unclaimed, they can be traded to anyone. Of course if the guy goes unclaimed, then there's also very little interest. Bottom line is that no one is giving up much value in August trades. That's why Justin Morneau was traded for Alex Presley and Kris Johnson.

You know all this information, and if you wonder why it is I think you are going on a witch hunt, this is why. Your criteria constantly changes when someone challenges you. I've said before that when it comes to building a farm, Ryan has a pretty good track record. I'm not sure if he's the guy for the job when the team gets competitive again, but the one thing he does very well is acquire talent.

Edited by diehardtwinsfan, 27 July 2014 - 01:18 PM.


#149 whydidnt

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:40 PM

I think it was a great article. For those that defend Ryan and Gardenhire and disagree with the premise of the article, just one question. How many truly awful years in a row must the Twins have before you agree that change is necessary? Whether Ryan and Gardenhire are good at what they do or not, the results aren't there, and haven't been for the last 4 years. To me it's just insane to keep failing at something and not change how you are doing things. The only changes the Twins have made over these last few years are purely window dressing, without any substance.