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#21 Brandon

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 11:19 AM

A 48 - 60 we are in 6th place 1 game out from the 5th pick and 2 out of the 4th pick of next years draft. 


#22 Mike Sixel

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 12:08 PM

Remember when everyone said they would not pick this high again for years? Good times.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#23 drjim

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:28 PM

Remember when everyone said they would not pick this high again for years? Good times.

 

"Everyone"

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#24 Kwak

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 02:27 PM

Go Twins! Go!


#25 old nurse

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:24 PM

"Everyone"

Does "Remember when those few optimisic Twins fan said ..."sound better? To say :jump: FO Appologists would be inflamatory :whacky028: :shoot: (where is the dead smilie to go here?)

Edited by old nurse, 02 August 2014 - 04:26 PM.


#26 old nurse

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:37 PM

Boston after trading their better players, Texas, Houston, DBacks, Cubs, and Colorado may be hard to "catch" San Diego and Philli could still tank. Meyer and May could come up and show how wrong the Twins were to leave them in AAA. To fall to the 18th pick is still possible. Faded memories seem to recall a quite a few years the Twins played well in September to give you hopes that were crushed by the following May


#27 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:04 PM

Under Gardy the last few years we have seen the Twins collapse in September. I see no reason not to expect the same this season. The Twins have a very good chance of ending up with a top-5 pick again, and could lose their way into the top 3 without too much bad luck.

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#28 drjim

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 11:53 PM

Does "Remember when those few optimisic Twins fan said ..." sound better? To say :jump: FO Appologists would be inflamatory :whacky028: :shoot: (where is the dead smilie to go here?)


Isn't there a term for when you take the position of a few people on the extreme, make it seem like it's a main line position and then take a strong stance against it? I admit it is one of my peeves from meaningful debate.

I think most people had the Twins from mid 70s to high 60s in wins. That is still more or less the pace. They could certainly collapse and fall into a top three pick, but that seriously underrates how bad some of the other teams are.
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#29 The Wise One

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 04:17 AM

Under Gardy the last few years we have seen the Twins collapse in September. I see no reason not to expect the same this season. The Twins have a very good chance of ending up with a top-5 pick again, and could lose their way into the top 3 without too much bad luck.

Don't you think they will have a better shot with Gibson, Hughes, and some of the call ups thane 2011 with Slowey, Hendriks and Diamond all pitching with ERAs over 5 and Swarzaks almost 5. How about 2012 withVasquez, Deduno, and Walters with ERAs over 5.5 and Diamond and Hendriks approaching 5.

Last year they were starting Hendriks,Hernandez and Devries with ERAs over 9, Diamond, Pelfrey and Albers with ERAs over 5. Yes those teams faded as the arms were tired, broken, or easily hittable pitchers. The staff ERAs were all higher in September and October than the rest of the year.

 

Gene Mauch could get the team to play late in the year for those that have long memories

Edited by The Wise One, 03 August 2014 - 04:29 AM.


#30 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:05 PM

Isn't there a term for when you take the position of a few people on the extreme, make it seem like it's a main line position and then take a strong stance against it? I admit it is one of my peeves from meaningful debate.

I think most people had the Twins from mid 70s to high 60s in wins. That is still more or less the pace. They could certainly collapse and fall into a top three pick, but that seriously underrates how bad some of the other teams are.


Indeed. As an "optimist", I came into the season expecting 71-73 wins.

#31 USAFChief

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:31 PM

Not scientific, or representative, but as a point of reference, 23 of 36 entries in the "Over/Under" contest had the Twins over 70.5 wins.

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#32 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:46 PM

Not scientific, or representative, but as a point of reference, 23 of 36 entries in the "Over/Under" contest had the Twins over 70.5 wins.


And they're on pace to beat that by 2.5 games so it seems pretty accurate at this point.

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#33 Thegrin

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:56 PM

I hate this thread.I hated it last year and I hate it this year. The Twins should win EVERY game they possibly can, regardless of how it affects their 2015 draft position.I hate the idea that the Twins would do anything but put out the best possible lineup for every game and demand that all their players should play their best, every game.

If I ever thought that Gardy manipulated his lineup or pitching rotation in order to lose a game, I would be screaming for the Twins to remove ALL management and Front Office staff.

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#34 drjim

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:58 PM

Not scientific, or representative, but as a point of reference, 23 of 36 entries in the "Over/Under" contest had the Twins over 70.5 wins.

 

That is also why I said mid 70s to high 60s, which would skew a little above 70.5, which is right in line with those predictions and more or less right in line with where they are headed.

 

For better or worse, I just don't think their draft position will drop a whole lot based as much on how bad the other teams are than any drastic improvement by the Twins.

 

Again, and this is admittedly a personal peeve in public discussion, but to take this information and say that "everyone" predicted they wouldn't draft that low is really contrary to the clear facts that were just cited. I just see that as overly pessimistic and inflammatory for the sake of being pessimistic and inflammatory. That can't be good for discussion, but I also admit this might just be a personal thing.

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#35 drjim

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 01:03 PM

I hate this thread.I hated it last year and I hate it this year. The Twins should win EVERY game they possibly can, regardless of how it affects their 2015 draft position.I hate the idea that the Twins would do anything but put out the best possible lineup for every game and demand that all their players should play their best, every game.

If I ever thought that Gardy manipulated his lineup or pitching rotation in order to lose a game, I would be screaming for the Twins to remove ALL management and Front Office staff.

 

Aside from protecting young players (especially arms) I think the Twins are doing pretty much everything they can to win. They just aren't an especially talented team, but should be more representative this year than the past three, especially when they call up May and Milone, and Mauer and Nolasco return from injury.

 

I also expect Pinto, Tonkin and possibly Hicks to be recalled in September, and Meyer to be brought into the bullpen. So if nothing else there will actually be some decent young players to watch.

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#36 USAFChief

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 01:24 PM

 

 

Again, and this is admittedly a personal peeve in public discussion, but to take this information and say that "everyone" predicted they wouldn't draft that low is really contrary to the clear facts that were just cited. I just see that as overly pessimistic and inflammatory for the sake of being pessimistic and inflammatory. That can't be good for discussion, but I also admit this might just be a personal thing.

It seemed like normal conversational hyperbola to me.  

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#37 drjim

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 01:27 PM

It seemed like normal conversational hyperbola to me.  

 

Fair enough, I'll shut up (for now).

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#38 old nurse

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 01:45 PM


 

Again, and this is admittedly a personal peeve in public discussion, but to take this information and say that "everyone" predicted they wouldn't draft that low is really contrary to the clear facts that were just cited. I just see that as overly pessimistic and inflammatory for the sake of being pessimistic and inflammatory. That can't be good for discussion, but I also admit this might just be a personal thing.

Personal opinion is that there is plenty of leeway given to pessimistic posts that are inflamatory on this board. I don't think it is the hyperbole as much as it iss is dividing people as you are either for what I say or against, dividing people into camps. With that division it cuts the meaningful conversation.


#39 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:10 PM

For better or worse, I just don't think their draft position will drop a whole lot based as much on how bad the other teams are than any drastic improvement by the Twins.

 

Predicting a drop in the Twins' standings is pessimistic and frankly, a bit tiresome. In case people hadn't noticed, the Twins actually walked away from the trade deadline a better team than they entered it. One of their biggest problems in June/July was band-aided with the addition of Tommy Milone.

 

What other cellar-dweller can say that, not to mention that most other cellar-dwellers are in the same position of the Twins, and that's playing a bunch of scrubs and rookies in August and September.

 

As bad as the Twins might be in August and September, it's just as likely that the other teams around them in the standings are going to be just as bad. Therefore, barring extenuating circumstances, it's unlikely the Twins move up or down the draft ladder much in the next seven weeks.


#40 Craig Arko

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:47 PM

I'm just trying to figure out which one of you is actually Pete Rose.
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