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Aaron Sanchez promoted

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#1 twinsnorth49

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 12:32 PM

Blue Jays calling up the 22 year old from Buffalo with a 4.39 and 1.54 WHIP in 34 1/3 innings.He had a 3.82 and 1.39 WHIP in 66 innings in AA.

Great k/9 but walks have been an issue, he's going to be pitching from the pen.

The Jays now have their top 2 pitching prospects up with the big league team, both under the age of 24.


Sure would be nice if the Twins had a couple of guys to do this with...........................oh,wait.

#2 drjim

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:02 PM

Blue Jays calling up the 22 year old from Buffalo with a 4.39 and 1.54 WHIP in 34 1/3 innings.He had a 3.82 and 1.39 WHIP in 66 innings in AA.

Great k/9 but walks have been an issue, he's going to be pitching from the pen.

The Jays now have their top 2 pitching prospects up with the big league team, both under the age of 24.


Sure would be nice if the Twins had a couple of guys to do this with...........................oh,wait.


Apparently going to work out of the pen. If the Twins were desperately trying to hold on to being competitive Meyer would be up in the pen too. They have wisely determined they aren't going to make it this year.
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#3 jokin

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:07 PM

Blue Jays calling up the 22 year old from Buffalo with a 4.39 and 1.54 WHIP in 34 1/3 innings.He had a 3.82 and 1.39 WHIP in 66 innings in AA.

Great k/9 but walks have been an issue, he's going to be pitching from the pen.

The Jays now have their top 2 pitching prospects up with the big league team, both under the age of 24.


Sure would be nice if the Twins had a couple of guys to do this with...........................oh,wait.


Starting out in the pen would have worked for either of the M & Ms.

Sanchez had a 7.08 K/9 along with a 4.46 BB/9, along with similar numbers in previous his stint in AA. Meyer sits at 10.10 K/9 and 4.44 BB/9 with much lower FIP/ERA/WHIP.... May is even better in K/BB.... 9.15 K/9 and 3.48 BB/9 along with 3.14 FIP/2.94 ERA/1.14 WHIP.

Looks like the Jays are another team that gets it, there's more to promoting your best prospect arms than just demonstrating mastery of a level and consistency.

Edited by jokin, 22 July 2014 - 09:36 PM.


#4 jokin

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:08 PM

Apparently going to work out of the pen. If the Twins were desperately trying to hold on to being competitive Meyer would be up in the pen too. They have wisely determined they aren't going to make it this year.


Yes, they've determined they aren't going to compete, after the fact. And I would posit that calling Meyer up shouldn't have been solely based on how competitive the Twins were going to be, regardless.

#5 drjim

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:14 PM

Yes, they've determined they aren't going to compete, after the fact. And I would posit that calling Meyer up shouldn't have been solely based on how competitive the Twins were going to be, regardless.


On this we agree. The Twins are making decisions regarding Meyer based completely on what is beneficial for him and his long term development, not based upon fanciful notions that they might compete this year.

Maybe that is the difference between Terry Ryan knowing and having confidence in who he is and Anthopolous making a move to try and save his job?
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#6 jokin

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:09 PM

On this we agree. The Twins are making decisions regarding Meyer based completely on what is beneficial for him and his long term development, not based upon fanciful notions that they might compete this year.

Maybe that is the difference between Terry Ryan knowing and having confidence in who he is and Anthopolous making a move to try and save his job?


On this we disagree. IMO, Meyer would benefit from learning on the job, working with his pre-determined limited innings, primarily out of the pen, against the best, with his top-flite stuff, and developing that stuff with the best coaching to focus on improving his control and third pitch. Michael Wacha threw 150 combined innings in 2013 for the Cards (initially starting out in the pen) and the AAA team, it worked for him.

#7 twinsnorth49

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:15 PM

I'm not suggesting Ryan should make a move based solely on what Anthopolous has done, and perhaps you're right in that he's nervous about his job, although I don't think he'll lose it.

I don't really see how bringing Meyer and May up sooner hurts their long term development, if both of them are on an innings limit then the Twins would be well served to use the majority of those innings with the big league team to help them assess where they need to be by next spring.

#8 Seth Stohs

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:29 PM

On this we agree. The Twins are making decisions regarding Meyer based completely on what is beneficial for him and his long term development, not based upon fanciful notions that they might compete this year.

Maybe that is the difference between Terry Ryan knowing and having confidence in who he is and Anthopolous making a move to try and save his job?


I would edit that to say they're making decisions regarding Meyer based completely on what THEY BELIEVE is beneficial for him and his long term development.

That sentence I would agree with.

#9 Shane Wahl

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:48 PM

May should be starting after Correia is traded and Meyer should be in the bullpen after either Fien is traded or Burton is dumped.

#10 drjim

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:04 PM

I would edit that to say they're making decisions regarding Meyer based completely on what THEY BELIEVE is beneficial for him and his long term development.

That sentence I would agree with.


I thought that was assumed.
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#11 drjim

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:04 PM

May should be starting after Correia is traded and Meyer should be in the bullpen after either Fien is traded or Burton is dumped.


I agree!
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#12 drock2190

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:33 PM

I like to see some changes in the bullpen. There are some good options in Triple AAA and I'm not big on Guerrier, Duensing or Burton. BLEH

#13 Jim H

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 05:04 PM

On this we disagree. IMO, Meyer would benefit from learning on the job, working with his pre-determined limited innings, primarily out of the pen, against the best, with his top-flite stuff, and developing that stuff with the best coaching to focus on improving his control and third pitch. Michael Wacha threw 150 combined innings in 2013 for the Cards (initially starting out in the pen) and the AAA team, it worked for him.


So how do you know he would benefit from being in the majors? How is he going to work on his 3rd pitch working out of the pen? He probably wouldn't need it in the bullpen, and in short stints, unless he has confidence in the pitch he likely wouldn't want to use it in crucial situations. Would you let him pitch in back to back games? Is it really a good idea to change a guy's whole routine when he may still be recovering from the shoulder problems from last year? I get bringing him up in September to use in the bullpen, with an expanded staff, and rather strict usage rules. I don't know about now.
If he can't come up and be used as a starter, then leave him in the minors to work on things. He is not going to make a difference to Twins success this year, getting mechanics worked on and 3rd pitch work might be better served in the minors.

I wouldn't mind seeing him in the majors either, but I am not as sure as you seem to be that it would be any real benefit to him.

#14 jokin

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:23 PM

So how do you know he would benefit from being in the majors? How is he going to work on his 3rd pitch working out of the pen? He probably wouldn't need it in the bullpen, and in short stints, unless he has confidence in the pitch he likely wouldn't want to use it in crucial situations. Would you let him pitch in back to back games? Is it really a good idea to change a guy's whole routine when he may still be recovering from the shoulder problems from last year? I get bringing him up in September to use in the bullpen, with an expanded staff, and rather strict usage rules. I don't know about now.
If he can't come up and be used as a starter, then leave him in the minors to work on things. He is not going to make a difference to Twins success this year, getting mechanics worked on and 3rd pitch work might be better served in the minors.

I wouldn't mind seeing him in the majors either, but I am not as sure as you seem to be that it would be any real benefit to him.


Aaron Sanchez makes a successful debut with Toronto tonight. 2 IP, 0 ER, 0 HIts, O BB, 2 K. Meyer could have started out with this role out of ST, according to Gardy, and worked on the other things you mentioned while gaining the valuable major league experience at age 24, that Sanchez will now be getting at age 22.

#15 DocBauer

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:35 PM

May should be starting after Correia is traded and Meyer should be in the bullpen after either Fien is traded or Burton is dumped.


This. Absolutely.

Though I disagree with trading Fien. Still young 30, not expensive, a real find and doing a great job.

I still believe May would already be up, stopping the Johnson/Pino train at the station if not for his calf injury.

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#16 DocBauer

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:45 PM

So how do you know he would benefit from being in the majors? How is he going to work on his 3rd pitch working out of the pen? He probably wouldn't need it in the bullpen, and in short stints, unless he has confidence in the pitch he likely wouldn't want to use it in crucial situations. Would you let him pitch in back to back games? Is it really a good idea to change a guy's whole routine when he may still be recovering from the shoulder problems from last year? I get bringing him up in September to use in the bullpen, with an expanded staff, and rather strict usage rules. I don't know about now.
If he can't come up and be used as a starter, then leave him in the minors to work on things. He is not going to make a difference to Twins success this year, getting mechanics worked on and 3rd pitch work might be better served in the minors.

I wouldn't mind seeing him in the majors either, but I am not as sure as you seem to be that it would be any real benefit to him.


Jim, the proposed call up of Meyer to potentially pitch out of the pen is based, obviously, on his innings limit/concern. I don't believe this scenario stunts his growth at all. It's by no means a permanent move, and would allow him the opportunity to experience ML life and ML hitters, which should only help prepare him for 2015. Further, whether called upon for an inning, or three, there is no reason he can't continue to work on his change. Now, it would be different if the staff actually told him to only throw FB's and sliders as if he was a true reliever. I seriously doubt they'd do that. He's too important to their future, and we're simply not going to be in a playoff chase barring something unforeseen happening.

Now, he could still get a start or two or three depending on when said promotion actually takes place, and then finish out in the pen. But I believe any ML experience this year helps his development moving forward.

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

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#17 beckmt

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:54 PM

There is also a confidence factor and a horrible 2 months up here might take a long while to recover from. If you bring up Meyer for the bullpen, you are going to use him in non-stress situations. that may not further his development. One night does not a season make.

#18 DocBauer

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 10:02 PM

Starting out in the pen would have worked for either of the M & Ms.

Sanchez had a 7.08 K/9 along with a 4.46 BB/9, along with similar numbers in previous his stint in AA. Meyer sits at 10.10 K/9 and 4.44 BB/9 with much lower FIP/ERA/WHIP.... May is even better in K/BB.... 9.15 K/9 and 3.48 BB/9 along with 3.14 FIP/2.94 ERA/1.14 WHIP.

Looks like the Jays are another team that gets it, there's more to promoting your best prospect arms than just demonstrating mastery of a level and consistency.


Jokin, you and I often share the same or similar viewpoints, but I'm going to disagree with you on this one.

I am taking age completely out of the equation as there are simply WAY TOO MANY factors in timing and development to use age as part of the equation.

Not saying you are ultimately right, or I am in thought and approach. I think "mastery" of a level is rather subjective. I think consistency of stuff and performance at a level would be a better cue than "mastery". As an example, we could argue that Kris Johnson has "mastered" the AAA level. And while he may yet find a role with the Twins, comparing his ability and potential to May and Meyer is ludicrous at best, even though many of his stats might show better.

Forgetting Sanchez's potential, his numbers are only so-so to this point in the season. I dare say if the Twins promoted a young pitcher with his ERA and Whip there would be outrage.

In my opinion, if you have a top starting pitching prospect, you let him start. Or at least as much as possible. (Considering I have advocated Meyer's promotion even if IP limits would dictate pen innings for his introduction) Now, if a team is in serious contention and really needs that extra arm, OK, I can see it. Otherwise, let a starter start.

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

--Lou Brown