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Twins Suzuki far apart on extension

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#1 gunnarthor

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:52 PM

Didn't see a thread about this - http://www.mlbtrader...sion-talks.html

Hopefully if they don't extend him they trade him. Doesn't really make sense for him to not go to FA after a career year and a weak catching crop of FA.

#2 DocBauer

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 07:35 PM

Interesting.

I am on record for two things relative here. One is that I believe Suzuki has real value for next season, possibly beyond, even with expected offensive regression. He's a quality C, period. He's a good guy on a team, calls a good game, works well with a staff, and has a good glove behind the plate. Good catchers don't just grow on trees. And having Suzuki on the roster doesn't necessarily block Pinto. Wouldn't he still have trade value next year as well if Pinto begins to take over, or given the opportunity to do so?

The second item I'm on record about is pitch framing. I've read some very educated information on the subject to be sure. And I'm not saying there isn't merit to the statistic, though it's still a fairly new one. But there are statistics in all sports than can be skewed. PPG in basketball need to be compared to shot % and numbers of shots taken as an example. And to me, being a quality C isn't about framing, and not even necessarily about throwing %, as that number can be skewed for several reasons as well. Being a quality catcher is about Suzuki's strengths, calling the game, taking control of the game, working with the staff, blocking the plate, and catching the high and wide throws.

Now, if Suzuki is looking for a big payday built around a career season, I have a hard time with that. I don't blame him, but there has to be reasonable parameters in place in regard to his value, career norms, and a best season. Without a fair figure in mind, years and dollars, then I'm in favor or the best trade value possible.

But don't forget, no matter Pinto's potential and our hopes for him, the potential of Herrmann overall, and some nice talent in the lower minors, we need someone behind the plate to work with our staff, including youngsters like May and Meyer, and it appears the FA market next year may be dry.

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#3 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:07 PM

I keep hearing about how Suzuki is so good at calling a game and handling the pitching staff.

If that is the case, why do the Twins have the worst starting pitching in the AL, and the 2nd worst in MLB, 2nd only to the thin air inflated Rockies staff?

#4 jorgenswest

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:29 PM

Because our pitchers are bad (kc, pelfrey, deduno, others). The catcher can polish a turd...but it is still a turd #signsuzuki #ttwoyeardeal #6milayear


Why would he take that deal in season?

Trade him to Cardinals or Orioles and try to sign him in the winter.

#5 Monkeypaws

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:44 PM

It works both ways folks - to think Suzuki will take a bogus offer at this point, mmmm, ain't gonna happen. TR should be sleepin with the cell at this point.

#6 kab21

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:50 PM

Ok, then I presume you weren't one of the posters suggesting coming into the season that our pitching staff would be improved this year, I take it?

Because we can't have it both ways. We can't look at them on paper and say they should be better, but then resolve Suzuki of any blame when it turns out they are not.


Are you honestly blaming Suzuki for Nolasco's disaster, KC's normalness, Deduno's ineffectiveness or Pelfrey's complete ineffectiveness?

I think it's silly that this site seems to blame the pitching coach and the catcher more for sucky pitching than the pitcher himself. there are certainly better catchers out there but things could be MUCH, MUCH worse than Suzuki offensively and defensively.

#7 twinsfan34

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:51 PM

I'm kinda relieve they're far apart - as the Twins aren't going in with the one-year wonder that is this year in Suzuki. I don't think anything more than 2 years would be beneficial for the Twins.

Pinto lacks confidence more than ability. And he played sparingly, so likely set him up to dwell on a few mistakes versus work it out. Offensively, we can't expect even a .265 season next year out of Suzuki, being realistic about it. Possible, but not likely. Pinto would likely offer just as much offensive value (HR, BB's while hitting .240) and if there's 'defensive metrics' that are meaningful...Suzuki is the "Worst" defensive catcher in MLB among starters. Turner, our defensive catcher, is hitting .240-ish at A+. Garver is hitting well at A, but not sure on his defense. If Suzuki doesn't find 2 years for 7/8 worthwhile...well honestly, I hope they trade him - and perhaps, let the FA market work itself out in the Fall...and if they find the value to be worth the $$...offer him that deal then.

I'm kinda excited to see what he could bring in return with the 'coupe' we got for Drew Butera last year. Would think if Butera brought in a 19 year old dominating A type of prospect with some potential, couldn't Suzuki bring in a AA/AAA player who's doing well...?

#8 Badsmerf

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:52 PM

He has all the leverage right now on the twins. Somebody is going to over pay for him this off-season when teams are bidding against each other. Twins best bet is to trade him and get the best offer possible.

I think the twins window for extending him passed in June. It's too late now, but that doesn't mean he can't be flipped for a nice prospect.

#9 kab21

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:58 PM

Butera didn't bring in a dominating A type of prospect with potential. He brought in a non-dominant RP'ing prospect (SP'er for now) that doesn't project as an MLB'er. One that was later traded for a mediocre utility IF'er. it was a coup for the Twins but neither Sulbaran or Nunez are anything to brag about.

#10 drock2190

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 09:15 PM

Good. Make him available and if there is a good offer, trade him. He likely wont be part of the next playoff team so might as well get something useful.

Besides, I wouldnt mind picking up another catcher in the offseason that comes fairly cheap. Russel Martin comes to mind.

#11 Twins Twerp

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 09:27 PM

Ok, then I presume you weren't one of the posters suggesting coming into the season that our pitching staff would be improved this year, I take it?

Because we can't have it both ways. We can't look at them on paper and say they should be better, but then resolve Suzuki of any blame when it turns out they are not.

The pitching still sux but the picture is much more pleasant than last summer. Nolasco, words cant explain the disappointment. But Hughes has been great and will be a great top to mid rotation guy for next two years; Gibson has shown signs and will also slot in for years to come. Kc has been what we thought he would and probably more. We will see what Nolasco does at end of season because I feel he can still contribute (i mean there are 3 seasons and 36 million reasons why i feel that).

The season may be lost but I think the rotation has "felt" better than last year. Now if you want to pull out some babip bs or era+minus than do it. I feel more confident about pitching future.

#12 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 09:36 PM

Glad to hear they are at least "Talking" I would be more than happy with 2/12 or so, and if they have to give him 3 years to keep him around I wouldn't be too upset since the total dollars wouldn't be insane.

I agree with Kab, I don't think its a given he is going to net some stud in return, if the offer isn't up to snuff I wouldn't mind that they just keep him, keep trying to sign him and then possibly lose him at the end of the year. The Twins have a super deep system, losing out on a low upside type prospect who would slot into the 20-30 range in this org wouldn't be the end of the world.

One other thing that should be brought up/thought about:
Pitch framing stats etc etc aside, I think we can all agree Suzuki is a solid "veteran" behind the dish who knows what he is doing and calls a "good" game. With May/Meyer on the cusp of coming up, it may be a nice thing for the Twins to have a legit veteran behind the dish instead of oh say.... Pinto or Fryer etc. when they come up.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald

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#13 raindog

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 10:25 PM

For the love of God, trade him. He's the best trade chip they have.

#14 nicksaviking

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 10:36 PM

I think it's silly that this site seems to blame the pitching coach and the catcher more for sucky pitching than the pitcher himself. there are certainly better catchers out there but things could be MUCH, MUCH worse than Suzuki offensively and defensively.


I think the majority of the time people blame the person responsible for putting these pitchers on the roster.

Well, of course and Anderson.

#15 Shane Wahl

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 10:59 PM

It is beyond my comprehension how anything other than a trade happens. There is no other reasonable way to go about this. Suzuki could bring in a Travis Harrison or Max Kepler or Stephen Gonsalves kind of prospect.

#16 70charger

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 11:01 PM

I think it's silly that this site seems to blame the pitching coach and the catcher more for sucky pitching than the pitcher himself.


But this is only when the thread is about the pitching coach or the catcher...

#17 howeda7

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 11:03 PM

If he can truly bring a Max Kepler level prospect, you trade him regardless. If he can't, offer him 2/$10 million. If that's not enough, trade him regardless.

#18 TheLeviathan

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 11:08 PM

I don't blame Suzuki for wanting to cash in, but if that's the case - move him. This deadline needs to stop being about the quality of the return and time to just dump some soon-to-be dead weight.

#19 howeda7

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 11:29 PM

When he says: "Hell No!" Then what? A combonation of: Pinto, Fryar, and Herrmann? Yikes, none are ML level. Sign AJ? Hoo Boy. At least the clubhouse will be entertaining. Sadly we fans don't get to observe. Or, sign some over-the-hill veteran bench catcher (for cheap--natch!)? Sort of like a repeat of the Drew Butera year. IDK how much pohlad money goes in a blackhole. I'm not interested in supporting a minor league team anymore.


I don't really care about the money. But Suzuki is playing way over his head offensively and isn't all he's made out to be defensively. And Pinto's not nearly as far away as he's portrayed, IMO. So yes, trade him. Pinto supported by Fyer/Hermann can make it through the rest of 2014. Then sign a veteran to back-up Pinto just like was done last year.

#20 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 12:14 AM

I'm happy for Suzuki and he's been fun to watch, but it's time we give him a chance to play for a contender and trade him asap, get something good for him.

Pinto and Herrmann are not young and we don't honestly know yet if they can be full time players. Will they even have options after this year?