Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Blunt Talk from Ownership

  • Please log in to reply
64 replies to this topic

#41 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 13,853 posts

Posted 18 July 2014 - 11:33 AM

We must have different definitions of humiliation. If the owner can talk about the team, I don't see why the GM can't talk about players when warranted. Otherwise, it's just more generalities without specific, individual accountability. That shouldn't be limited to the players and includes the rest of the staff... however, any staff statements need to be a multiple more cautious given how easy it is to start the "fire X" talk.


Airing dirty laundry in public, especially about young players, has zero gain. It literally does nothing to help what really matters. Just like in any other area of management, those things are not handled well through public shaming.

#42 DuluthFan

DuluthFan

    Member

  • Members
  • 266 posts

Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:16 PM

On prospects:
[FONT=Arial]We’ve been doing this for 30 years now. And a player who is not here yet is not yet a player,”[/FONT]





He is probably sick and tired of all of the questions asking when so and so will be up with the major league team.

I'm sick of reading about it myself.

#43 S.

S.

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 702 posts

Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:47 PM

Talk is cheap. The FO and ownership have said all sorts of things over the last few miserable years, but it doesn't mean a damn thing to me if they're not going to make a whole lot of significant changes.

#44 jaimedude2

jaimedude2

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,138 posts

Posted 18 July 2014 - 01:27 PM

Talk is cheap. The FO and ownership have said all sorts of things over the last few miserable years, but it doesn't mean a damn thing to me if they're not going to make a whole lot of significant changes.


This I can agree with talk is cheap, talk about trying the old, any chance Andy McPhail would come in and take over as team president from Dave St Peter, hire a new GM and have Tom Kelly do the one year interim manager thing to mentor Molitor or is there zero chance of any of this happening. Would be nice to get a baseball guy in the Presidents chair again.

#45 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 8,783 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 18 July 2014 - 01:33 PM

This I can agree with talk is cheap, talk about trying the old, any chance Andy McPhail would come in and take over as team president from Dave St Peter, hire a new GM and have Tom Kelly do the one year interim manager thing to mentor Molitor or is there zero chance of any of this happening. Would be nice to get a baseball guy in the Presidents chair again.


I think you don't quite understand the role of Dave St. Peter in this front office. He has nothing to do with Terry Ryan having a job and he has nothing to do with baseball decisions.
Papers...business papers.

#46 birdwatcher

birdwatcher

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,425 posts

Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:34 PM

Very interesting that Miller's piece and Souhan's column were published on the same day.

Just how tired is Jim Pohlad of what's been happening? Is he willing to make major changes in the old boys network that has dominated this organization?

Is the way they've been doing for 30 years working?


While I get and respect the sentiment about the need for wholesale changes in the front office and field staff, I do think it's a bit of a mischaracterization to suggest the Twins have had this 30-year suffocation at the hands of a dominant few, ownership aside.

Jim Pohlad is a pretty matter-of-fact guy, and these comments merely reflect a certain resolve. He grew up career-wise in a culture that values long-term thinking, values financial results, and also values its good people. So I'd call it resolve, not impatience, and his comments are a reminder that the financial model for the baseball business has improved dramatically and the W-L record and World Series contention are the ultimate goals.

I hope he speaks out with this kind of bluntness more often. It helps dispel the notions out there that they don't care about anything other than their own pocketbooks.

#47 birdwatcher

birdwatcher

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,425 posts

Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:00 PM

I agree nothing much is going to change. They have their approach and will stick with it. JP and TR are like minded. Fiscally responsible, they value performance for certain dollar amount, they make sure things are profitable and they are patient in their approach. TR will retire about the time the new stars are ready to get their big contracts.


I'd submit that things in fact have been changing in response to the improved economics, but we haven't seen it reflected in the W-L column. They're building this for "sustainable" success, IMO. It's taking time.

#48 birdwatcher

birdwatcher

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,425 posts

Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:16 PM

I would suggest that neither role warrants public humiliation of young players.


Again, Levi, not everyone believes that a player was publicly humiliated.

#49 birdwatcher

birdwatcher

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,425 posts

Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:22 PM

Airing dirty laundry in public, especially about young players, has zero gain. It literally does nothing to help what really matters. Just like in any other area of management, those things are not handled well through public shaming.


Again, Levi, after reading those comments over and over, I for one detected no dirty laundry and absolutely no public shaming there.

#50 JB_Iowa

JB_Iowa

    Let's Keep Winning!

  • Members
  • 5,986 posts
  • LocationNorthwest Iowa

Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:33 PM

Jim Pohlad is a pretty matter-of-fact guy, and these comments merely reflect a certain resolve. He grew up career-wise in a culture that values long-term thinking, values financial results, and also values its good people. So I'd call it resolve, not impatience, and his comments are a reminder that the financial model for the baseball business has improved dramatically and the W-L record and World Series contention are the ultimate goals.


Question: In Jim Pohlad's other business ventures, do they only promote from within, never bringing in talent from the outside in the upper ends of the companies?

Because that is what it appears has happened with the baseball operations of the Twins. (I will not say that about the non-baseball side of the organization because there do appear to be some hires at mid-to high levels there).

But on the baseball side, what we see is constant promotion from within. They did bring Wayne Krivsky in but again, that was a retread. Even with the few coaching changes, they brought in people with long histories with the organization.

That is my primary complaint and the reason I think wholesale changes are needed now. They became mired in the same old, same old. That doesn't mean that they didn't grow in their jobs but it is not the same thing as having new talent brought in at a high enough level that they might challenge some of the team's continuing practices.

Fresh eyes, ears, and thought are desperately needed in the baseball side of the operations. And it has stagnated so much that I think it needs a major overhaul. That might not have been necessary had they refreshed the stagnant pool over time but they didn't do that. Now it smells like a dead pool that never gets any inflow.

#51 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 13,853 posts

Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:51 PM

Again, Levi, not everyone believes that a player was publicly humiliated.


Antony most definitely humiliated some people publicly. Those conversations should happen in private, never a public accosting of a player by the GM.

I'm glad Jim Pohlad chose not to do it. Too many GMs do this around the league and it's dumb. That includes the Twins when they do it.

#52 Kwak

Kwak

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,939 posts

Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:55 PM

Some of this mindset is shown in the inordinate number of players that have "a Minnesota connection". I suspect when one changes, so will the other.

#53 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Twins World Champions in 2018

  • Members
  • 9,159 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 18 July 2014 - 05:34 PM

What are your reactions to these comments? Is Jim Pohlad just worn out from three years of losing and the cynicism shown through or is this just the kind of straight-forward, realistic talk many of us would like to see more of?


My reaction to these comments is shrugs. I'd rather see action and accountability, and Pohlad has refused to do so the last few seasons...
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#54 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Twins World Champions in 2018

  • Members
  • 9,159 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 18 July 2014 - 05:38 PM

May in AAA to start the season.


He will be running out of options quickly...
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#55 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 8,783 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 18 July 2014 - 08:49 PM

Some of this mindset is shown in the inordinate number of players that have "a Minnesota connection". I suspect when one changes, so will the other.


I doubt it. Smart marketing for a team like the Twins. Shouldn't sacrifice talent, but all things being relatively equal, makes sense to go with the Minnesota guy. It's not like people in the Twins front office are necessarily Minnesota lifers.
Papers...business papers.

#56 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 8,783 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 18 July 2014 - 08:50 PM

He will be running out of options quickly...


Luckily he has three.
Papers...business papers.

#57 Oxtung

Oxtung

    If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence of tryin

  • Members
  • 1,949 posts

Posted 20 July 2014 - 12:11 AM

If they both came up today they wouldn't technically be rookies but I would consider them so for the point I am making. It puts excessive strain on a staff to have two guys without the innings built up in the same rotation to start the year. It is not about performance per se, but consistent ability to go 5-6 innings for 30+ starts, 180+ innings. That is really hard to do.

Keep May in AAA, Pelfrey in bullpen, and Berrios close to ready in AA, and you are talking about legitimate quality depth to start the season.

Do that, add a bat or two, have a prospect or two emerge and you are on to something.


A slight quibble with your larger view. Trevor May will be on his last option next year so I think it would behoove the Twins to start with him in the rotation instead of Meyer (if it comes down to the two of them.) In addition May has gone 150 IP for 3 straight years and is well on his way to his fourth this season. If you're worried about durability and the bullpen he seems the better option at this point.

#58 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 8,783 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 20 July 2014 - 06:32 AM

A slight quibble with your larger view. Trevor May will be on his last option next year so I think it would behoove the Twins to start with him in the rotation instead of Meyer (if it comes down to the two of them.) In addition May has gone 150 IP for 3 straight years and is well on his way to his fourth this season. If you're worried about durability and the bullpen he seems the better option at this point.


Fair enough and that may be how it shakes out. I suspect the next couple of months will tell us more on how this ultimately plays out. It might very well be Meyer in the minors to start just to keep innings down next season, but my prediction counted on talent winning out in the spring. I see May as number 4 type ultimately, maybe a 3 if everything breaks right, perfect type of player to start as depth guy.
Papers...business papers.

#59 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 11,761 posts
  • LocationThe charred ruins of BYTO

Posted 20 July 2014 - 06:55 AM

I'd submit that things in fact have been changing in response to the improved economics, but we haven't seen it reflected in the W-L column. They're building this for "sustainable" success, IMO. It's taking time.


I'm not sure I agree with you on the airing dirty laundry stance, as I think Levi is right here, but in all, this I think is dead on accurate. The W-L column has improved, just not at the rate that most of us would like, but they are building a very strong farm that should allow for some pretty good baseball the second half of this decade. Couple that with an aging Detroit, poor management in KC, and lousy farms in Detroit, Cleveland, and Chicago, I think the central is going to be pretty ripe for the taking for a while.

#60 Lakeside

Lakeside

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 75 posts

Posted 20 July 2014 - 07:08 AM

Question: In Jim Pohlad's other business ventures, do they only promote from within, never bringing in talent from the outside in the upper ends of the companies?

Because that is what it appears has happened with the baseball operations of the Twins. (I will not say that about the non-baseball side of the organization because there do appear to be some hires at mid-to high levels there).

But on the baseball side, what we see is constant promotion from within. They did bring Wayne Krivsky in but again, that was a retread. Even with the few coaching changes, they brought in people with long histories with the organization.

That is my primary complaint and the reason I think wholesale changes are needed now. They became mired in the same old, same old. That doesn't mean that they didn't grow in their jobs but it is not the same thing as having new talent brought in at a high enough level that they might challenge some of the team's continuing practices.

Fresh eyes, ears, and thought are desperately needed in the baseball side of the operations. And it has stagnated so much that I think it needs a major overhaul. That might not have been necessary had they refreshed the stagnant pool over time but they didn't do that. Now it smells like a dead pool that never gets any inflow.


I'm going from memory here, but I think, over the years since the Pohlads bought the team, the Presidents of the organization were from different businesses with the first baseball grown President being Dave St. Peter.

Jerry Bell was the first President/COO of Twins Baseball, Inc. when the Pohlads bought the team in '84 and served until, I think, Chris Clouser was brought in as COO. . I think Clouser came from Burger King??, and then Kevin Cattoor was brought in frrom Television,MSC/Fox Sports, in about 2000. I'm guessing that St. Peter took over in about 2003. . . .maybe it is time for a change.

In my old roll-o-dex of baseball contacts I have Dave St. Peter's card listing him as Director of Communications.

Was Andy McPhail, Terry Ryan, or Bill Smith ever anything more than Baseball GM.

Personally, I like Pohlad's blunt talk. . .as a baseball fan baseball is always an "optimistic" pastime to watch. . . Spring comes every year. . . I discovered Twins Daily this year during Spring Training and now it is a daily read along with MILB.com . . . . I've posted a few times when I beleive that I have knowledge that might be insightful. . . .one thing I've noticed on these posts is, in general, how optimistic the posters are aout, what I would call, the so call "ease" of advancing thru the minors to to MLB. Jim Pohlad is right when he says, "They are not players until they are here" (Paraphrase)