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Article: Trade Candidate: Kurt Suzuki

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#21 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:50 AM

I'd roll with Pinto and Herrman (sp?) or Fryer. Get Pinto up here and developing/adjusting. At some point, you need to hand the team over to the young players. I understand that others disagree, and that's cool with me. It won't depress me if they sign him, but I think people are over looking the pitch framing issue because they don't buy the stat (when it is probably the most accurate and realiable defensive stat, actually).

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#22 birdwatcher

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:55 AM

What is the alternative in your scenario?

AJ?
Internal?
Another FA on another one-year deal?



How do you know this, and what relevance is it? Ryan was pursuing pitching talent, and it was by this initiative that he landed May and Meyer, correct? Washington and Philadelphia didn't thrust those key prospects upon Ryan.

#23 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:57 AM

birdwatcher brings up a point......they might be able to trade for a catcher, but I don't have any idea who that could be.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#24 birdwatcher

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:59 AM

Obviously I meant to include the previous post, my bad.

As for the attractiveness of some team's #10 prospect for Suzuki? In most systems, this prospect is a back-of-the-rotation guy or a 4th OF type. Is that really selling high? What constitutes an overwhelming return for Suzuki?

#25 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:05 AM

As for the attractiveness of some team's #10 prospect for Suzuki? In most systems, this prospect is a back-of-the-rotation guy or a 4th OF type. Is that really selling high? What constitutes an overwhelming return for Suzuki?


Yep. This is why I'd strongly consider holding on to Suzuki. Do the Twins need another Sean Gilmartin in the organization if it means they put Eric Fryer behind the dish in 2015?

If the offer borders on a top 100 - maybe even top 150 - prospect, then you listen. If it's more organizational filler with marginal upside, keep Kurt and extend him for 2/$14m.

#26 goulik

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:08 AM

I say offer Suzuki and one of Gilmartin, Johnson, Darnell, Pino to sweeten the return or any number of relievers... We have some we could spare

#27 halfchest

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:09 AM

We got Miguel Sulbaran for Drew Butera . . . who I just checked on and is doing quite well in the FSL this year. He looked like a good return for Drew back when we got him and still is looking like a solid return for an all glove no bat catcher.

Just makes me think we could get something pretty solid for Suzuki and would be the right move to trade him. I don't want them to give him up for peanuts but I think we're looking at one solid prospect at the very least for him.

#28 Dman

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:15 AM

I think if you can get a B level prospect for him you call that a successful deal. No one is going to give up the farm for a two month rental of a catcher with defensive holes in his game.

To hang onto Suzuki to the end of the season and get nothing at all for him seems like an odd strategy to me. You win a few more games but no future gain.

Suzuki has no incentive to sign an extension when the market is ripe (i.e. shortage of FA catchers) for him to make a killing this off season. Are the Twins known as a team that outbids and overpays in years and dollars for a player? I don't think so. Get something while you can. If the Twins are serious about wanting him back they can overpay for him in the off season.

#29 Thrylos

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:22 AM

I'd roll with Pinto and Herrman (sp?) or Fryer. Get Pinto up here and developing/adjusting. At some point, you need to hand the team over to the young players. I understand that others disagree, and that's cool with me. It won't depress me if they sign him, but I think people are over looking the pitch framing issue because they don't buy the stat (when it is probably the most accurate and realiable defensive stat, actually).


Agreed (other than the Fryer part). Despite what is been said by various Twins' people, the numbers (framing studies -believe them or not, and the numbers of passed balls/WPs/throws to CF in attempted steals) between Suzuki and Pinto are not that different. Fryer's are even worse in a very small sample size. Herrmann lit up AAA this season and was ranked as the Twins' organization best defensive catcher by the BA few seasons back. Suzuki might know how to call a game better, but you don't learn how to call an MLB game, unless you catch an MLB game (or 100.)

Pinto and Herrmann with minimum salary in 2015 with a .780 OPS or so, sounds better to me than Suzuki with $8M in 2015 with a .690 OPS (his career average) or so. He is a catcher, he is 30. I'd rather see them invest that money to fix other holes for 2015 at this point (like a marquee outfielder.)

Rewinding to 1991 the Twins won with an all hit, no glove catcher who was fundamental for that team.

Edited by Thrylos, 17 July 2014 - 08:24 AM.

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#30 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:32 AM

the postiest post every by thrylos.....agree 100%

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#31 DAM DC Twins Fans

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:33 AM

However, I'm inclined to keep Suzuki. I recall from an earlier post that the free agency catcher options are very underwhelming next year. If he signs for a modest 2 year extension say in the 10-12 range or maybe one year plus a team option I would not complain. With several young pitchers coming up in the next year of so I believe the veteran backstop would be a wise investment. Even if he ends up backing up Pinto next year I still feel he's a wise investment.


I agree--good catchers are rare--free agency looks week. Offer Suzuki 2 years/15mil. If he takes it great. If not (and he can see free agency market too), then trade him. That means rolling the dice with Pinto the next couple of years until our catchers in Class A are ready. I hope Suzuki takes the deal--not a fan of Fryer.

#32 jokin

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:38 AM

Yep. This is why I'd strongly consider holding on to Suzuki. Do the Twins need another Sean Gilmartin in the organization if it means they put Eric Fryer behind the dish in 2015?

If the offer borders on a top 100 - maybe even top 150 - prospect, then you listen. If it's more organizational filler with marginal upside, keep Kurt and extend him for 2/$14m.


Or get a great, or not so great deal for Suzuki, let Pinto get the bulk of the PAs for the rest of the year. And then make a more informed analysis on whether to re-sign Suzuki in the offseason.

#33 jokin

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:41 AM

I agree--good catchers are rare--free agency looks week. Offer Suzuki 2 years/15mil. If he takes it great. If not (and he can see free agency market too), then trade him. That means rolling the dice with Pinto the next couple of years until our catchers in Class A are ready. I hope Suzuki takes the deal--not a fan of Fryer.


Not necessarily true. They can attempt to re-sign Suzuki in the offseason if they decide that Pinto still won't be ready in 2015, or look to teams who are looking to move soon-too-expensive vets to be replaced with their prize prospects, like Houston and Jason Castro, for example.

I do agree about Fryer, though.

#34 jorgenswest

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:43 AM

They can trade him to St. Louis or Baltimore with the knowledge that he will be available in the winter. Take the prospects and pursue Martin first and Suzuki second this offseason. While he is gone, play Pinto regularly. They may find out they don't need to pursue a catcher.

#35 Dantes929

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:47 AM

"Suzuki has no incentive to sign an extension when the market is ripe (i.e. shortage of FA catchers) for him to make a killing this off season. Are the Twins known as a team that outbids and overpays in years and dollars for a player? I don't think so. Get something while you can. If the Twins are serious about wanting him back they can overpay for him in the off season."
Actually he has a great incentive to sign an extension. Does he himself think he is a 300 hitter? He has everything to lose by waiting. A half season of his career average of .250 or less will put him right back where he was at the beginning of this year in terms of bargaining power. Twins should trade him if they can get something good He will probably regress to his career averages and the Twins can get him for 3 or 4 mil this off season if they want him. If we can't get something good then let him play it out and maybe resign him in the offseason. This is he order of best results. 1. Sell high and resign him for reasonable price when he goes back to being a .250 hitter with average defense. 2. Sell high and not resign him. 3. Let him play out the year and have a decent catcher working with the pitchers for the rest of the year and then resign him when he regresses to the norm. (Even at his career average he is a decent player, just not great) . Let him play the season out and do not resign him. We have already gotten our money's worth out of him. 4. Keep him. He actually does continue to play well and we pay the same then as we would now for more years with him. This is probably buying high but at least with more data to support it 5. Extend his contract at a premium based on his all star 1st half. In other words selling him high is best outcome. Buying him high is worst outcome which is what we would be doing by extending his contract at this point.

#36 jokin

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:50 AM

Obviously I meant to include the previous post, my bad.

As for the attractiveness of some team's #10 prospect for Suzuki? In most systems, this prospect is a back-of-the-rotation guy or a 4th OF type. Is that really selling high? What constitutes an overwhelming return for Suzuki?


A top 100 guy, perhaps in a down year, who projects possibly better than back-of-the-rotation or utility position player (Jays have a couple of these pitchers, as does Baltimore)...and to get this type of deal done would likely require other players to be involved- plus a highly motivated buyer.

#37 Boom Boom

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:50 AM

IMO, if you're going to sign Suzuki again (and it's going to take at least a two-year commitment), you're pretty much waving the white flag on Pinto ever being the catcher and you might as well trade him.

Two more years in AAA or more time as a backup/part-time DH isn't going to help Pinto's development. If you trade Pinto soon, I bet some other team would take a chance on him being a starting-caliber catcher.

#38 DJL44

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:52 AM

If they trade Suzuki to the Cardinals or Orioles he will be available this offseason. Neither one will be offering him an extension.

#39 jokin

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:54 AM

They can trade him to St. Louis or Baltimore with the knowledge that he will be available in the winter. Take the prospects and pursue Martin first and Suzuki second this offseason. While he is gone, play Pinto regularly. They may find out they don't need to pursue a catcher.


Yep. And add Toronto to that mix of teams, and possibly the Dodgers, they have some prospects and their group of catchers for the year has a BA of .196 with a .568 OPS (Drew will do that for you).

#40 Dantes929

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:55 AM

Essentially the Twins and the fans need to look at Suzuki as a .250 hitter with ok defense. Its easy to say you would still like him but have the Twins extend his contract for 16 mil and then see him fail in a half dozen situations where he succeeded in the first half and then get back to me.