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Jeter NOT the Best All-Time Shortstop

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#31 tobi0040

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 01:27 PM

The point was that Jeter's offense has to be seen in light of the era he played in - which had record offensive numbers. His OPS+ is roughly the same as Ripken's and defensively it's no contest IMO.

Larkin should also at least be in the conversation.


OPS +, Ripken career +112, Jeter +116. Jeter better avg (.311 vs. .276), Ripken way more HR (431 vs. 258).

Career Offensive WAR Jeter 95.2 versus Ripken 77.2. Defense is not even close, Ripken +34.6, Jeter -9.4.

Jeter has been a liability defensively for most of his career. You net those two together and you get 112 to 85 edge for Ripken.

Honus's stats are obviously way better than both....just a historical issue. I think WAR and OPS+ factor against competition at the time. Honus had a +151 OPS+. WAR 123 + 21.3, net +144

#32 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:06 PM

Cntrl+F+"Nick Punto"= Zero results found :(
Cntrl+F+"Mark DeRosa"=Zero results found :s-chainsaw::fenforcer:
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald

:whacky028::whacky028: :whacky028::whacky028:

#33 notoriousgod71

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 05:54 PM

Freddie Patek. He was overlooked by many.


I wonder how many people get this joke.

#34 Thrylos

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 06:16 PM

Career top 10 fWAR leaders at SS:

1 Honus Wagner 138.1
2 Alex Rodriguez 111.0
3 Cal Ripken 92.5
4 George Davis 84.6
5 Bill Dahlen 77.5
6 Derek Jeter 74.3
7 Luke Appling 72.7
8 Arky Vaughan 72.6
9 Barry Larkin 67.6
10 Ozzie Smith 67.6

Not.Even.Close.

And as far as peaks go, Arky Vaughan has the edge, even over ARod. Short career was his downfall as far as WAR was concerned but a top NL player in the mid '30s to mid '40s. Only non-HOFer in the list, other than the 2 active ones, is Dahlen and he should probably be in.

Edited by Thrylos, 17 July 2014 - 06:20 PM.

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#35 ashburyjohn

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 06:40 PM

I wonder how many people get this joke.


You Must Be This Tall To Get This Joke.

#36 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:26 PM

Banks played more games at 1B than at SS in his career.

For my money (which is not much), I'd take Jeter as the top SS of all-time...


Seth would you agree that SS is the most critical position for fielding on a team? How can you justify Jeter's Defensive WAR of negative 9.4? Jeter was a gamer, a great hitter, a hustler, a leader, but he was a poor fielder at a critical position.

#37 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 09:17 PM

Career top 10 fWAR leaders at SS:

1 Honus Wagner 138.1
2 Alex Rodriguez 111.0
3 Cal Ripken 92.5
4 George Davis 84.6
5 Bill Dahlen 77.5
6 Derek Jeter 74.3
7 Luke Appling 72.7
8 Arky Vaughan 72.6
9 Barry Larkin 67.6
10 Ozzie Smith 67.6

Not.Even.Close.

And as far as peaks go, Arky Vaughan has the edge, even over ARod. Short career was his downfall as far as WAR was concerned but a top NL player in the mid '30s to mid '40s. Only non-HOFer in the list, other than the 2 active ones, is Dahlen and he should probably be in.

I deleted my post because I misread yours... sorry.

Edited by Bark's Lounge, 17 July 2014 - 09:20 PM.

There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.


#38 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 01:50 PM

We're missing somebody important but for the life of me I cannot think of who it could be, some old-timers help me out please.


Considering he's been the 2nd best SS on his team for quite some time right now, I think that someone else is A-Rod. Granted there's the streroid thing there, but A-Rod has been a better SS than Jeter. Jeter is an HOF SS, but I think he's a bit overrated.