Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

The Store

Photo

Article: Twins Minor League Report (07/08): Alex Meyer Shines, Mike Kvasnicka Glows

  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1 Eric R Pleiss

Eric R Pleiss

    Member

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 09:15 AM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...Kvasnicka-Glows

#2 Possumlad

Possumlad

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:07 AM

Wanting "more consistency" from our minor-league starters is an infuriating, nonsensical double-standard. The only of our major-leaugers who've been "consistent" have been "consistently bad." (Phil Hughes has been the most consistently good, but even he has had a recent run of mediocre to poor outings, until yesterday).

Even great pitchers have ups & downs, that's simply the nature of of the job. Of course consistency is great if you can get it, but it needn't be a pre-requisite if the overall body of work is very strong.

I remember someone around here doing a piece earlier this year regarding how few major-league pitchers (even the best of the best) are consistent over long stretches.

The only caveat here is that we don't know exactly the type of consistency that Antony is talking about. If he's talking about consistently in results, then my points above stand. If he means that Meyer is having trouble using a consistent motion, arm angle, or some other mechanical issue, then I suppose it could be justified. My sense, however, is that they're simply talking about results.

#3 gunnarthor

gunnarthor

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,709 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:16 AM

Nice to see Hicks heating up. I hope he gets to AAA sometime this season.

#4 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,206 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:19 AM

Wanting "more consistency" from our minor-league starters is an infuriating, nonsensical double-standard. The only of our major-leaugers who've been "consistent" have been "consistently bad." (Phil Hughes has been the most consistently good, but even he has had a recent run of mediocre to poor outings, until yesterday).

Even great pitchers have ups & downs, that's simply the nature of of the job. Of course consistency is great if you can get it, but it needn't be a pre-requisite if the overall body of work is very strong.

I remember someone around here doing a piece earlier this year regarding how few major-league pitchers (even the best of the best) are consistent over long stretches.

The only caveat here is that we don't know exactly the type of consistency that Antony is talking about. If he's talking about consistently in results, then my points above stand. If he means that Meyer is having trouble using a consistent motion, arm angle, or some other mechanical issue, then I suppose it could be justified. My sense, however, is that they're simply talking about results.


The only thing I can make sense of these comments and why Meyer is still in AAA would be either the futures game, or they are waiting until next June. Both make zero sense to me.

The next playoff team has Alex Meyer starting game 1. Let's get his feet wet.

#5 SDFan

SDFan

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:28 AM

It's nice to see Hicks hitting well at AA. I haven't given up on him at all. I hope the organization hasn't.

#6 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 6,801 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:31 AM

The only thing I can make sense of these comments and

why
Meyer is still in AAA would be either the futures game,

or they are waiting until next June. Both make zero sense to me.

The next playoff team has Alex Meyer starting game 1. Let's get his feet wet.


The reason for holding him back definitely isn't the Futures Game, Meyer was the second choice for that spot, behind May (actually the third choice, behind the originally-chosen Cardinals pitcher who was promoted).

The only recent encouragement to suggest a possible acceleration of this go-slow process is the fact that besides this being the 3rd straight effective outing, Meyer now is apparently allowed an expanded pitch count. But unfortunately, now sitting at nearly 90 innings, Meyer only has another 50-60 innings left- max. That's about 9 starts, which means a shut-down by around the end of the third week in August if he remains in a starting role.

Perhaps there's a smidgen of hope that a roster spot is cleared for Meyer by a trade or two in the next week? Maybe, but I'll stand by my prediction in May that we don't see Meyer until June 2015.

Edited by jokin, 09 July 2014 - 10:44 AM.


#7 Eric R Pleiss

Eric R Pleiss

    Member

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:38 AM

I don't think anyone has given up on Hicks, but the expectations are now back where they should have been after a strong AA season in 2012, not the sky high expectations after strong 2013 Spring Training (and trading away all other CF options) that saw him as the Opening Day CF the last two years. Twins will have to move him up before too long, once Buxton is back at full speed he'll be at AA, forcing Twins to do something with Hicks.

#8 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,944 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:40 AM

Wanting "more consistency" from our minor-league starters is an infuriating, nonsensical double-standard. The only of our major-leaugers who've been "consistent" have been "consistently bad." (Phil Hughes has been the most consistently good, but even he has had a recent run of mediocre to poor outings, until yesterday).

Even great pitchers have ups & downs, that's simply the nature of of the job. Of course consistency is great if you can get it, but it needn't be a pre-requisite if the overall body of work is very strong.

I remember someone around here doing a piece earlier this year regarding how few major-league pitchers (even the best of the best) are consistent over long stretches.

The only caveat here is that we don't know exactly the type of consistency that Antony is talking about. If he's talking about consistently in results, then my points above stand. If he means that Meyer is having trouble using a consistent motion, arm angle, or some other mechanical issue, then I suppose it could be justified. My sense, however, is that they're simply talking about results.


I think comparing the minor leaguer to current major league roster is somewhat of a mistake. Half the rotation is not going to stand in the way of Meyer when he is ready.

The two things he has to improve are fastball command and the development of a usable third pitch. Things that work in AAA don't necessarily work in the majors, and certainly won't lead to long term success. Meyer has the potential to be a front of the rotation guy, but won't get there until he cleans these two things up. There is good reason to be patient.

The debate of course is whether this development is best done in the majors or in AAA. As a fan I surely want to see him at Target Field, but perhaps that is not the most prudent course of action.
Papers...business papers.

#9 Eric R Pleiss

Eric R Pleiss

    Member

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:41 AM

Agreed, Meyer has been consistent, and deserving of a promotion. Same for Trevor May. Meyer is not on 40 man roster yet, so I'd think that May has the lead for next man up, potentially when Twins realize that Eric Fryer is a waste of space on the roster and Twins call up pitcher after ASG. Then Fryer comes off 40 man and Meyer could potentially take his spot when Twins are ready.
Or maybe Edgar Ibarra could come off, he's been struggling this year and hasn't really made progress since being moved to the bullpen two-three years ago.

#10 Possumlad

Possumlad

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:44 AM

I think comparing the minor leaguer to current major league roster is somewhat of a mistake. Half the rotation is not going to stand in the way of Meyer when he is ready.

The two things he has to improve are fastball command and the development of a usable third pitch. Things that work in AAA don't necessarily work in the majors, and certainly won't lead to long term success. Meyer has the potential to be a front of the rotation guy, but won't get there until he cleans these two things up. There is good reason to be patient.

The debate of course is whether this development is best done in the majors or in AAA. As a fan I surely want to see him at Target Field, but perhaps that is not the most prudent course of action.


Agreed on all points. To be clear, I'm more than fine with keeping Meyer down if the purpose is to "improve fastball command and the develop a third a pitch." My only issue is the Twins continued, bizarre insistence on general "consistency." If he needs to improve fastball command and work on a third pitch, just say that.

#11 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 5,816 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:19 AM

I'd like Meyer up for a taste, so that when they NEED him next year, he's a bit used to MLB parks.
Lighten up Francis....

#12 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,944 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:34 AM

Agreed on all points. To be clear, I'm more than fine with keeping Meyer down if the purpose is to "improve fastball command and the develop a third a pitch." My only issue is the Twins continued, bizarre insistence on general "consistency." If he needs to improve fastball command and work on a third pitch, just say that.


As a general rule I don't get caught up in specific words that are used and tie myself in knots trying to decipher everything that is said. I think "show more consistency" is short hand for continue to do the things he needs to work on.

Meyer has been plenty good but it's not like he has ripped off 10 dominate starts in a row. He certainly has things to improve upon.
Papers...business papers.

#13 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,944 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:39 AM

I'd like Meyer up for a taste, so that when they NEED him next year, he's a bit used to MLB parks.


I personally agree with you and think he would be a great candidate to spend a couple of months in the bullpen to end the season.

However, with innings restrictions going into next year it is probably pretty unlikely he could start from day 1 in the rotation and last the entire season, so he will either have to spend time in the bullpen or AAA, so that would be just as effective in easing him in.

It is a fun thing to debate but there is certainly wisdom in both methods.
Papers...business papers.

#14 Wyorev

Wyorev

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:05 PM

99 pitches, 4 walks, 2 runs, in 6 innings in AAA doesn't scream out to me - "put me in coach."
At the same time - the 10 strikeouts are sure fun. . .

#15 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 6,801 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:19 PM

99 pitches, 4 walks, 2 runs, in 6 innings in AAA doesn't scream out to me - "put me in coach."
At the same time - the 10 strikeouts are sure fun. . .


...and the International League-leading K/9 of 10.4 and K% of 27%, along with ranking 5th in H/9 @ 7.55 are at least whispering "let me show you what I got, coach."

Edited by jokin, 09 July 2014 - 12:32 PM.


#16 kdrupp09

kdrupp09

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 231 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:37 PM

...and the International League-leading K/9 of 10.4 and K% of 27%, along with ranking 5th in H/9 @ 7.55 are at least whispering "let me show you what I got, coach."


Those stats are pretty eye popping. It does kind of give the "let me show you something" vibe.

#17 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,206 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:50 PM

Maybe, but I'll stand by my prediction in May that we don't see Meyer until June 2015.


I hope you are very, very wrong here but I can't lay down any money on this one. We probably want to see Pino get more starts, May, Kris Johsnon, see what we have in Scott Diamond, etc.

#18 oldguy10

oldguy10

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 301 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:51 PM

And how many years down the road will that playoff team be that Meyer will be the starting pitcher in? May I hazard a guess - 2018 and that is being charitable. That also predicates that Meyer will be the Twins best starter from their current crop of young pitchers, I posit perhaps Berrios or Stewart instead.

#19 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,290 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 01:03 PM

I think it's a little silly to say that Meyer is absolutely ready for the big leagues. He was great in April, and mediocre in May and not very good in June. He's been alright the last three outings, though his walk rate is not good.

I think they should get him up this year too, but it's not a travesty at all that he isn't up yet.

#20 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 5,816 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 01:15 PM

Who said he is ready? IMO, he should be brought up to learn more about how ready he is, both the twins and Meyer need that learning.

#21 jorgenswest

jorgenswest

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,571 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 01:19 PM

It is interesting to see Rosario and Hicks performing at the same level. Hicks certainly looks to be the more ready player.

In fact Hicks is tied with Dozier for 5th on the team in OBP. Pinto would be 9th. As much as they were criticized by the organization, it sure seemed like he Twins were playing better when these flawed younger players were in the line up and getting on base. At least we now have veterans who know how to go about their business.

#22 Wyorev

Wyorev

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 01:51 PM

. . . IMO, he should be brought up to learn more about how ready he is, both the twins and Meyer need that learning.

MWW - that's quite an interesting thought. It has me thinking.
Thanks.
Who remembers Frank Viola's beginning in MLB?
He learned on the fly.
If I remember correctly, he had games where he would be looking into the dugout, wanting to be pulled, and they'd leave him in to - I think - sort of teach him to toughen up. A manager would get ripped pretty good for that now, and maybe deserved to be then. . .

#23 JB_Iowa

JB_Iowa

    Cynical Oldie

  • Members
  • 3,517 posts
  • LocationNorthwest Iowa

Posted 09 July 2014 - 01:52 PM

It is interesting to see Rosario and Hicks performing at the same level. Hicks certainly looks to be the more ready player.

In fact Hicks is tied with Dozier for 5th on the team in OBP. Pinto would be 9th. As much as they were criticized by the organization, it sure seemed like he Twins were playing better when these flawed younger players were in the line up and getting on base. At least we now have veterans who know how to go about their business.


I saw Hicks being sent down as what was best for Hicks -- not necessarily what was best for the team.

And he has been rolling better recently. His AA .BA is now up to .279 and his OBP is .400, SLG at .410 and OPS at .810. This is pretty much where he was at in AA in 2012. I really don't want the Twins to rush him back. I want to see if he can keep improving those numbers and keep his confidence. Maybe try a stint at AAA and see if he can maintain them there.

It's another lost season for the Twins anyway. I'd like to see Hicks get the experience and build the confidence he needs to be ready for 2015.

#24 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,206 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 02:18 PM

I think it's a little silly to say that Meyer is absolutely ready for the big leagues. He was great in April, and mediocre in May and not very good in June. He's been alright the last three outings, though his walk rate is not good.

I think they should get him up this year too, but it's not a travesty at all that he isn't up yet.


Every number but his BB rate this year says he has nothing left to accomplish in the minors, IMO. That isn't to say he won't struggle, but it is all relative.

I think a K rate of 27% negates the higher walk rate to an extent. His 4.3 BB per 9 is not awful. In total, I think he has dominated every level thus far (3.06 ERA) with a 10.4 K per 9 rate. That number has not tailed off as he moved up like most do.

Given that we are in rebuild mode, it is a borderline travesty that we saw Pino over M or M, in my opinion. Kris Johnson should not see the field until both M and M have been up.

#25 Dantes929

Dantes929

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 293 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 03:16 PM

9-1 with a 1.92 ERA deserves a shot so I disagree with the travesty part, rebuild or not. Strikeouts are not indicative of dominance, but of raw stuff. Liam Henckriks had better stats with much less stuff which tells me Meyer is a little rough around the edges. I have also made the consistency argument on behalf of Meyer and May but honestly, they should consistently dominate AAA as reflected in ERA before going to the next level. If you want to go with WHIP then May should be next and Meyer is probably close enough to Johnson to give him the nod but Pino was exceptional and if he didn't earn the promotion then no one has.

#26 Dantes929

Dantes929

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 293 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 03:19 PM

"I saw Hicks being sent down as what was best for Hicks -- not necessarily what was best for the team." Well put. As I have pointed out before Hicks has an OBP better than Revere or Span this year and those are the guys fans were moaning about losing. His OBP plays very well from the 9 spot but it is still hard to justify a .200 batting average. I still kind of wish he had stuck with just right handed hitting though.

#27 birdwatcher

birdwatcher

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 878 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 03:57 PM

Who said he is ready? IMO, he should be brought up to learn more about how ready he is, both the twins and Meyer need that learning.


A number of commenters have said he's ready. We as fans want to learn more about how ready he is, but it's just not within the realm of how it all works to think that the Twins, who have skilled coaches watching very pitch and every bullpen, haven't "learned" how ready he is. If he was 100% ready, they'd have made room by now. Since he isn't, they're doing what they think is best for him.

#28 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 4,921 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 04:04 PM

A number of commenters have said he's ready. We as fans want to learn more about how ready he is, but it's just not within the realm of how it all works to think that the Twins, who have skilled coaches watching very pitch and every bullpen, haven't "learned" how ready he is. If he was 100% ready, they'd have made room by now. Since he isn't, they're doing what they think is best for him.


I'm pretty sure the standard of 100% ready isn't real for any player on any team. It's an inexact science.

#29 SD Buhr

SD Buhr

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 613 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 04:12 PM

Wow, poor JD Williams goes 4-4 with a HR and is on base 5 times and can't get a TD Hitter of the Day award cuz someone else had 5 hits in twice as many games? Sheesh... that's what we call a bad beat in the poker room!