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A's trade for Samardzija

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#21 pierre75275

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:41 PM

I wonder if the A's taking two of the most sought after arms increases the value of others. As in Price. And I wonder if that means we might get more for Corria then we thought

#22 AlwaysinModeration

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 08:43 PM

I wonder if the A's taking two of the most sought after arms increases the value of others. As in Price. And I wonder if that means we might get more for Corria then we thought


Well I thought they'd get a bucket of practice balls for him, but I still was hoping for the deal. If he is more valuable...maybe they could get a couple of practice tees thrown in? Whatever the bounty, I am all for it.

#23 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 09:46 PM

I wonder if the A's taking two of the most sought after arms increases the value of others. As in Price. And I wonder if that means we might get more for Corria then we thought


It can't hurt although I'm unsure how much it helps outside of two starters being off the market. I'd be surprised if the Rays get a better player than Russell though. I don't know much about that proposed trade but I think the Rays really messed up if they thought they could get more. (Now watch them trade him for Dylan Bundy).

#24 TheBigGuy7273

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 01:48 AM

I am a Die hard Twins fan. I also follow the cubs. The organizations are in completely different rebuild molds if you will. There was an article, somewhere I read, I believe it was a post on here, where there are three different, Houston complete youth movement, trade away all salary in an effort, to start from the ground up. Effective, yes, but to be barron of mlb talent for 2 plus yrs. very tough on a fan base. Now they are begining to see those efforts first hand. But they also had to rebuild a poor farm system.

The Cubs, similarly have had to rebuild a poor farm system. But outside of a couple spots on their roster, have signed veterens, especially in the rotation, and flipped them for prospects. Mind you both teams have drafted well, and also the cubs have been extremly aggressive in signing international free agents. But the cubs don't have that big name, like the twins do with Mauer. Rizzo and Castro might be those guys, but right now they are young and are not close to that level. they are building blocks.

The Twins, they have got a superstar, and while i haven't agreed with some of the personal moves, they have to rebuild and win as much as they can while rebuilding. Which explains the Kubel, Bartlett, and Gerrier moves. But they also realize that, in order to get better, those plaers that are not cornerstones, and building blocks are tradable assests.

Houston is a little farther away then the cubs and twins, and the twins are probably the closest to competing. They have shown that they are not that far away. The youth movement is almost here. To be fair to the twins, they really didnt have any prospects mlb ready until this year. thats the biggest reason they have been so bad the past couple yrs, no depth and no real prospects in the high minors. We all reconize that we haven't moved forward at all in terms of our big 4 or five prospects, injuries, suspension, etc. but organizationly the twins have gotten stronger as a whole and the depth is finally getting back to where it was, the farm system wasn't as bad as their counterparts, but the talent was just years away. thats not true anymore. Devolpmently they have probably hurt a couple prospects, with how they were handled, Hicks especially. but hicks is probably close to where he belongs right now, helps on its way, remember that, we are going to see some of the studs start coming up in the next 6 wks or so. but I also think there will be a trade that no one expects, kind of like the span and revere deals in the same offseason.

The other thing to look at is what they are doing with some position players switching positions, pay close attention to those moves to, in my mind that can be a good tell of what they think of the people that are in front of those players, i.e. Travis Harrison. Rosario to, playing a lot more OF now that Dozier is settled in. I think we will see Rosario sooner rather then later as long as his bat stays consistant. maybe even as soon as they trade Hammer.

#25 h2oface

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:29 AM

Billy Beane. I just love that guy.

#26 old nurse

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 04:58 AM

Willingham, Carroll, Doumit, Marquis, Correia, Suzuki, Burton, the Capps re-signing, would have to disagree with you.


None were a long term contract. Short term contracts for vets are to bridge. On the other hand, he is looking to build with Nolasco and Hughes.

#27 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 11:15 AM

I agree that the Twins are trying to rebuild, but that they are doing it a completely different way than the Cubs.
The Twins following the Cubs blueprint would be to trade Suzuki, Mauer, Perkins, Hughes, Willingham, Correia, and possibly even Dozier. Obviously, we all know that isn't going to happen here.
I'm not going to try to predict which way is "better", time will tell us that one in a few years. Though, personally, I like the Cubs version better.
Like us, they had one of the better farm systems. But, while we have been content to add to it with our high draft picks and a few international signings, they are going to throw as many noodles at the wall as they can, knowing that not all of them will stick.
On paper (again, we'll see in a few years how it works out), the Cubs now have by and far the best farm in baseball, and with the addition of Russell, it may be the most loaded farm I have seen in all of my years.

#28 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 01:03 PM

Willingham for three years, Doumit twice, Pelfrey twice.....explain Pelfrey or Bartlett or Kubel, how do any of those indicate giving youth a chance? Or Matty G instead of one of many minor league RP? Explain how clogging your forty and twenty five man rosters with guys with no options helps to let you send guys down and up?

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#29 gunnarthor

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:49 PM

Willingham for three years, Doumit twice, Pelfrey twice.....explain Pelfrey or Bartlett or Kubel, how do any of those indicate giving youth a chance? Or Matty G instead of one of many minor league RP? Explain how clogging your forty and twenty five man rosters with guys with no options helps to let you send guys down and up?


Which guys are being clogged? On one hand we're hearing that the Twins rushed Arcia and Hicks and others are complaining that - presumably - the minor leaguers aren't learning at the big league level. Twins don't spend money on FA and now Willingham and Nolasco shouldn't have been signed. I don't see anyone of any future importance being blocked. I don't really care if AJ Achter is up or not.

#30 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:38 PM

7 IP, 1 run allowed, a 4-2 victory for Oakland. How good does Samardzija feel about now?

#31 SgtSchmidt11

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 06:45 PM

Willingham, Carroll, Doumit, Marquis, Correia, Suzuki, Burton, the Capps re-signing, would have to disagree with you.


Willingham isn't holding back anybody even right now in his last year, Carroll was a utility who they demostrated they could trade at any moment, Doumit was a one year signing and then essentially a one year extension and traded (good move IMO), Marquis was a one year flyer, Correia is filler and will be gone shortly, Suzuki was also a one year flyer, Burton was a waiver that panned out and only recently sucked (relievers can be easily traded if performing), Capps is gone and were are still not ready to contend.

I realize Correia is holding back Mays right not, but it's not for long in the scheme of things. I would also like to note that no Twins pitcher worth their salt has been injured this year. That is surely lucky, perhaps Ryan was playing the odds more and assuming at least one of Correia/Nolasco/Hughes/Gibson/Deduno would be on the DL for a while, since the odds are that 33% hit the DL at some point.

Where is there a single person who has held back anybody for a full years time?

#32 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:00 PM

Maybe that is the issue, the minors can't produce players that can crack this awesome team......

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#33 TheLeviathan

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:33 PM

Which guys are being clogged? On one hand we're hearing that the Twins rushed Arcia and Hicks and others are complaining that - presumably - the minor leaguers aren't learning at the big league level. Twins don't spend money on FA and now Willingham and Nolasco shouldn't have been signed. I don't see anyone of any future importance being blocked. I don't really care if AJ Achter is up or not.


I really don't care if anyone is being blocked or not. I care that they're handing out multi-year deals to players with minimal chance of having trade value and no chance of being anything other than placeholders. If they are just place holders....why not just gamble with someone else that's under the age of 30? Those guys exist (and largely fail, but the point is about approach moreso than results) every year to gamble on.

I applaud them signing Nolasco, for the symbolism most of all. Pelfrey? Good god that was stupid from the outset and has proven to be even more ridiculous with time. The team has to get away from feeling the need to appear to be contending. I'd rather have them take risks (like with Nolasco) and fail then see them play it ridiculously safe (see Kubel and Bartlett) and fail. This team has actually managed to get OLDER not younger the last three years.

We see some great things happening in the minors. That doesn't excuse bungling opportunities with the big league club.

#34 SgtSchmidt11

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:48 PM

I really don't care if anyone is being blocked or not. I care that they're handing out multi-year deals to players with minimal chance of having trade value and no chance of being anything other than placeholders. If they are just place holders....why not just gamble with someone else that's under the age of 30? Those guys exist (and largely fail, but the point is about approach moreso than results) every year to gamble on.

I applaud them signing Nolasco, for the symbolism most of all. Pelfrey? Good god that was stupid from the outset and has proven to be even more ridiculous with time. The team has to get away from feeling the need to appear to be contending. I'd rather have them take risks (like with Nolasco) and fail then see them play it ridiculously safe (see Kubel and Bartlett) and fail. This team has actually managed to get OLDER not younger the last three years.

We see some great things happening in the minors. That doesn't excuse bungling opportunities with the big league club.


I agree about the Pelfrey signing simply because of the two year nature of it. Kubel and Bartlett less so simply because they didn't really block anybody and we at least got something (even if not much) out of Kubel.

#35 gunnarthor

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 10:34 PM

I really don't care if anyone is being blocked or not. I care that they're handing out multi-year deals to players with minimal chance of having trade value and no chance of being anything other than placeholders. If they are just place holders....why not just gamble with someone else that's under the age of 30? Those guys exist (and largely fail, but the point is about approach moreso than results) every year to gamble on.


Who has Ryan given multi-year deals to? Hammer and Correia will probably be traded in the next month. Doumit was traded. Pelfrey. Hughes. Nolasco. Perkins. Did I miss someone? Yeah, I didn't like the Kubel signing but it was defensible and he and Bartlett combined for 180 PA so I'm not going to freak out over it. Heck, the Cubs have giving 100 more PA to Nate Schierholtz.

#36 TheLeviathan

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 11:28 AM

Heck, the Cubs have giving 100 more PA to Nate Schierholtz.


Nate Schierholtz was a minor league deal the Cubs turned into 21 HRs and a 108 OPS+ last year.

That's the difference. Has Schierholtz been awful this year? Sure has, but they take flyers on guys like him and Arrieta and not friggin Pelfrey and Kubel. I want them to invest, no matter how long the odds, in high ceilings.

Hughes was the only example of that and I strongly and proudly applauded that move beforehand and afterward.

#37 gunnarthor

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 11:42 AM

Nate Schierholtz was a minor league deal the Cubs turned into 21 HRs and a 108 OPS+ last year.

That's the difference. Has Schierholtz been awful this year? Sure has, but they take flyers on guys like him and Arrieta and not friggin Pelfrey and Kubel. I want them to invest, no matter how long the odds, in high ceilings.

Hughes was the only example of that and I strongly and proudly applauded that move beforehand and afterward.

Fine, what did they get for that 21 home runs? Nothing. They didn't move him. He's been horrible this year and they keep throwing him out there. Schierholtz was never a high ceiling guy or somebody with an established record. He was a journey man who got lucky and had a good year. Sorta like Scott Diamond. By your own logic, the Cubs failed twice by not getting anything for him last year and by wasting nearly 300 PA on him this year.

Heck, Kubel had a much better track record and was only a year away from 30 homer season. But it's ridiculous to bitch about Kubel as a way of saying they aren't rebuilding as this started.

#38 TheLeviathan

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 11:57 AM

Sorta like Scott Diamond.


Scott Diamond was a smart move by the club. Jason Kubel was not. Nor was Bartlett.

They aren't targeting enough upside. And they haven't been with the major league roster for awhile.

#39 gunnarthor

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 12:06 PM

Scott Diamond was a smart move by the club. Jason Kubel was not. Nor was Bartlett.

They aren't targeting enough upside. And they haven't been with the major league roster for awhile.

I think what this might lead to is a discussion of how the Twins do in free agency. I think that's best put off for now.

But Schierholtz (and Diamond) was not a high upside signing. He was a cheap placeholder until they could develop pieces to replace him. Every team does that. Willingham is also a place holder but it looks like he is one that the Twins can get something for, despite being over 30.

#40 TheLeviathan

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 12:08 PM

But Schierholtz (and Diamond) was not a high upside signing. He was a cheap placeholder until they could develop pieces to replace him. Every team does that. Willingham is also a place holder but it looks like he is one that the Twins can get something for, despite being over 30.


You're wrong. Both of those guys were formally high-touted prospects that flopped as they approached the big leagues. Those kinds of guys have FAR more upside than, say, Bartlett. Or Correia.