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A's trade for Samardzija

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#1 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 09:53 AM

http://www.mlbtrader...son-hammel.html

Big trade. I tend to think Samardzija is overrated but Hammel is a bit underrated but both are legit ML pitchers who should help this year. Hammel is a FA at the end of the year and Samardzija has one more year of club control. A's gave the Cubs arguably the best pure shortstop prospect in baseball in Addison Russell, former first rounder Billy McKinney who looks like a nice piece and MLer Dan Straily.

With Russell, I think the Cubs are probably the best farm system in baseball right now, even with Beaz' struggles. Arguably, Bryant and Russell could be ranked ahead of Buxton/Sano respectively.

#2 jaimedude2

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:05 AM

With Russell, I think the Cubs are probably the best farm system in baseball right now, even with Beaz' struggles. Arguably, Bryant and Russell could be ranked ahead of Buxton/Sano respectively.[/QUOTE]

Russell was supposed to be the A's top minor league prospect so wonder if they gave up a lot in this trade or if they know something the rest of us do not about Russell and hoodwinked the Cubs.

I wish the Twins would do what the Cubs are doing and appearing to go young as far as the major league club goes. Not saying trade away top prospects just douche the clubhouse and go young with Polanco, Santana, Vargas, Rosario. It is time to run with the young and talented and dump the plow horses that are slow of foot and play bad defense (Trevour Plouffe) (Chris Parmaleee) (Josh Willingham) just to name a few. Time to move on from Correia and the Pino types in the rotation and bullpen too. This club needs an overhaul and needs to start cleaning house.
Why lose and get your brains beat in with these proven non-winners.

#3 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:11 AM

Nice catch. Oakland is amazing.

Samardzija will add to the top of a rotation that has delivered a stellar 3.34 ERA, but which owns peripherals (3.90 FIP, 3.84 xFIP) that paint a somewhat different picture. More importantly, perhaps, are the question marks that accompany the team’s top three hurlers: staff ace Sonny Gray is up to 111 innings but has never thrown more than 182 1/3 in a season as a pro; the emergent Jesse Chavez (103 innings) is about to pass his career high in innings pitched; and Scott Kazmir has a well-documented injury history.


#4 beckmt

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:30 AM

Trade should set a good benchmark for the Twins as the Cubs seem to be doing it the correct way. Twins need to take some chances and gain some top minor league prospects for 2016-2017. Best way to do this is to trade not only the expected, but also a Dozier and possibly Perkins

#5 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:39 AM

Trade should set a good benchmark for the Twins as the Cubs seem to be doing it the correct way. Twins need to take some chances and gain some top minor league prospects for 2016-2017. Best way to do this is to trade not only the expected, but also a Dozier and possibly Perkins


Well, by 2016-2017 Stewart, Thorpe and Gordon should all be top prospects (if not in the majors). I do agree, however, that the Twins should move Perkins and Dozier if they get a great offer. If the Nats wanted to trade make a trade around Giolito for Dozier for example.

#6 mike wants wins

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 11:26 AM

It would be nice if the Twins committed to A strategy. Rebuild, or seriously try to win.

#7 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:19 PM

It would be nice if the Twins committed to A strategy. Rebuild, or seriously try to win.


I think it's hard to say that Ryan hasn't been in rebuild mode since he came back.

#8 mike wants wins

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:23 PM

Not so sure......they seemed to not act that way to me this year, but maybe signing Bartlett and Kubel was part of a rebuild effort somehow.
Lighten up Francis....

#9 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:52 PM

Not so sure......they seemed to not act that way to me this year, but maybe signing Bartlett and Kubel was part of a rebuild effort somehow.


Cubs signed John Baker, doesn't mean they aren't rebuilding. I've mentioned it before but last year the Twins graduated 3 top 100 prospects to the majors. You can't do that every year but they are clearly rebuilding.

#10 mike wants wins

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:41 PM

How are those three doing this year?

#11 jorgenswest

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:46 PM

I think it's hard to say that Ryan hasn't been in rebuild mode since he came back.


I can say it. You don't rebuild with a franchise record number of players in their 30s. You don't rebuild by signing veterans from the bargain bin. You don't rebuild with rosters that are among their oldest rosters since 1998. You don't hang onto a Willingham or Perkins at the trade deadline. You hand the ball to younger players and let them struggle and grow together.

The last two years are failed attempts at trying to give the appearance of being competitive. 2011 was a surprise and might have been explained by injuries. 2012 could have been an attempt to retool. The rebuild should have started mid 2012.

1999-2000 was a rebuild. The Twins rebuilt in the early 80s.

#12 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:58 PM

I can say it. You don't rebuild with a franchise record number of players in their 30s. You don't rebuild by signing veterans from the bargain bin. You don't rebuild with rosters that are among their oldest rosters since 1998. You don't hang onto a Willingham or Perkins at the trade deadline. You hand the ball to younger players and let them struggle and grow together.


Actually, you can rebuild totally independently of those things. As Ryan has been doing.

#13 Otwins

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:18 PM

I think Ryan is rebuilding. He has traded starting major league outfielders for minor league pitching. I just think they are trying to get by signing cheaper veteran players until they feel that the minor league talent is ready. Twins are much closer to being good again than 2-3 years ago. I too wish they would just go with the younger players. I am hoping they will by August.

#14 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:30 PM

Actually, you can rebuild totally independently of those things. As Ryan has been doing.


What do you mean by "rebuild"? It's possible we are all talking past one another if we do not agree on terms.

The 2001 team that surprised everybody and won 85 games averaged about 25.5 years of age. Matt Lawton was the only age 30+ starter in the lineup. And these were the same young guys who went to the ALCS the following year.

Maybe this would be a "rebuild" to the extreme and maybe it wouldn't pay off for a few years, but this is the ideal I think of, when I think of rebuild. No time for the Doumits, Willinghammers, Fulds, Kubels, etc.

#15 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:25 PM

Actually, you can rebuild totally independently of those things. As Ryan has been doing.


This. Rebuilding doesn't mean throwing a guy into the fire who isn't ready. When you have a guy who isn't ready, you get a vet on a short term contract to hold the place.

#16 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:31 PM

This. Rebuilding doesn't mean throwing a guy into the fire who isn't ready. When you have a guy who isn't ready, you get a vet on a short term contract to hold the place.


True. I agree the Hicks experiment has failed for now. He was a guy who wasn't ready.

Willingham and Suzuki have produced, others haven't. I just fear a continuation of the cycle of mediocre vets and a Twins team that's less than the sum of its parts.

#17 jorgenswest

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:02 PM

I don't doubt Ryan is trying to fix the team. It seems a waste of time to try to define rebuild.

One strategy in rebuilding is going young. That isn't the strategy Ryan chose. He is signed low cost decline phase players and given them to a manager who gave them significant at bats and innings. They have failed in their attempt to rebuild with decline phase players. They have failed in any attempt to contend. It is time for a new direction.

#18 Brandon

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:49 PM

I think this year was designed to be a competitive bridge year while waiting for the talent in the minors to develop. there is not many who are long term (Susuki (1 year) Morales (1year), Willingham (last year on contract), Fuld (really). Sano and Buxton should have been able to come up at some point this year while the team hung around .500 and May and Meyer will still get their chance to throw some innings up here too. It sounds like the posters above me are upset that the moves didn't quite work out. Buxton and Sano are both injured. Nolasco has been terrible. Joe Mauer forgot how to hit for most the first half, We all new the Pelfry signing was not a good idea but has been worse then thought possible. Morales has yet to hit.

I thought we were in a rebuild (Arcia, Hicks, Gibson, Dozier, Escobar, Santana, Pinto, Parmelee, Colabello,Theilbar with solid developed young vets Plouffe, Mauer, Perkins, Deunsing, Fien, Hughes, and Nolasco but using veterans Corriea, Pelfry, Willingham, Morales, Florimon, Kubel, and Suzuki, to buy time for the youngsters to get ready. The Twins already got rid of Kubel and Bartlett and kind of Florimon. I suspect Corriea will be gone soon and May and Meyer will get their chances. outside of them and a bullpen arm or 2 I don't see anyone else that is ready to make a significant contribution at the major-league level yet. Again Sano and Buxton were hopefuls to come up this year at some point but are injured. what more can the Twins do at this point to bring players up? I don't necessarily think you need to go so young that all rookies must band together to figure out how to win up here when you can leave the veterans and work in the rookies as they prove ready to come up.

#19 Jim H

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:56 PM

I think that it is basically a bad idea to get young players to the majors before they are "ready". Clearly we all define ready differently. But it is clear that Hicks, Arcia and maybe a few others were likely moved to the majors before they were ready. Yet, their minor league stats indicated they were "ready" or close to it. I think some of the young guys many seem to want up are probably less ready then Hicks or Arcia appeared to be.

There are really 2 issues here. Can being in the majors help the development of a young player or does it hurt them? Clearly, there is no one answer to that, sometimes it helps, sometimes it probably hurts. I feel Delmon Young and Carlos Gomez are 2 fairly recent examples of hose whose development was slowed by being in the majors too soon.

The other issue would be, do you really want to start the major league clock on some these guys who could use more development time, and probably aren't any better than the guy they would be replacing right now(no matter their upside)?

Personally, I don't think it is all that much fun to watch guys who aren't really ready to be in the majors, playing there. I watched that in early 80's and the late 90's. It only became fun when they began to figure things out, even if they weren't winning all that much.

#20 Thrylos

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:12 PM

I think it's hard to say that Ryan hasn't been in rebuild mode since he came back.


Willingham, Carroll, Doumit, Marquis, Correia, Suzuki, Burton, the Capps re-signing, would have to disagree with you.
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#21 pierre75275

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:41 PM

I wonder if the A's taking two of the most sought after arms increases the value of others. As in Price. And I wonder if that means we might get more for Corria then we thought

#22 AM.

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 08:43 PM

I wonder if the A's taking two of the most sought after arms increases the value of others. As in Price. And I wonder if that means we might get more for Corria then we thought


Well I thought they'd get a bucket of practice balls for him, but I still was hoping for the deal. If he is more valuable...maybe they could get a couple of practice tees thrown in? Whatever the bounty, I am all for it.

#23 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 09:46 PM

I wonder if the A's taking two of the most sought after arms increases the value of others. As in Price. And I wonder if that means we might get more for Corria then we thought


It can't hurt although I'm unsure how much it helps outside of two starters being off the market. I'd be surprised if the Rays get a better player than Russell though. I don't know much about that proposed trade but I think the Rays really messed up if they thought they could get more. (Now watch them trade him for Dylan Bundy).

#24 TheBigGuy7273

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 01:48 AM

I am a Die hard Twins fan. I also follow the cubs. The organizations are in completely different rebuild molds if you will. There was an article, somewhere I read, I believe it was a post on here, where there are three different, Houston complete youth movement, trade away all salary in an effort, to start from the ground up. Effective, yes, but to be barron of mlb talent for 2 plus yrs. very tough on a fan base. Now they are begining to see those efforts first hand. But they also had to rebuild a poor farm system.

The Cubs, similarly have had to rebuild a poor farm system. But outside of a couple spots on their roster, have signed veterens, especially in the rotation, and flipped them for prospects. Mind you both teams have drafted well, and also the cubs have been extremly aggressive in signing international free agents. But the cubs don't have that big name, like the twins do with Mauer. Rizzo and Castro might be those guys, but right now they are young and are not close to that level. they are building blocks.

The Twins, they have got a superstar, and while i haven't agreed with some of the personal moves, they have to rebuild and win as much as they can while rebuilding. Which explains the Kubel, Bartlett, and Gerrier moves. But they also realize that, in order to get better, those plaers that are not cornerstones, and building blocks are tradable assests.

Houston is a little farther away then the cubs and twins, and the twins are probably the closest to competing. They have shown that they are not that far away. The youth movement is almost here. To be fair to the twins, they really didnt have any prospects mlb ready until this year. thats the biggest reason they have been so bad the past couple yrs, no depth and no real prospects in the high minors. We all reconize that we haven't moved forward at all in terms of our big 4 or five prospects, injuries, suspension, etc. but organizationly the twins have gotten stronger as a whole and the depth is finally getting back to where it was, the farm system wasn't as bad as their counterparts, but the talent was just years away. thats not true anymore. Devolpmently they have probably hurt a couple prospects, with how they were handled, Hicks especially. but hicks is probably close to where he belongs right now, helps on its way, remember that, we are going to see some of the studs start coming up in the next 6 wks or so. but I also think there will be a trade that no one expects, kind of like the span and revere deals in the same offseason.

The other thing to look at is what they are doing with some position players switching positions, pay close attention to those moves to, in my mind that can be a good tell of what they think of the people that are in front of those players, i.e. Travis Harrison. Rosario to, playing a lot more OF now that Dozier is settled in. I think we will see Rosario sooner rather then later as long as his bat stays consistant. maybe even as soon as they trade Hammer.

#25 h2oface

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:29 AM

Billy Beane. I just love that guy.

#26 old nurse

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 04:58 AM

Willingham, Carroll, Doumit, Marquis, Correia, Suzuki, Burton, the Capps re-signing, would have to disagree with you.


None were a long term contract. Short term contracts for vets are to bridge. On the other hand, he is looking to build with Nolasco and Hughes.

#27 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 11:15 AM

I agree that the Twins are trying to rebuild, but that they are doing it a completely different way than the Cubs.
The Twins following the Cubs blueprint would be to trade Suzuki, Mauer, Perkins, Hughes, Willingham, Correia, and possibly even Dozier. Obviously, we all know that isn't going to happen here.
I'm not going to try to predict which way is "better", time will tell us that one in a few years. Though, personally, I like the Cubs version better.
Like us, they had one of the better farm systems. But, while we have been content to add to it with our high draft picks and a few international signings, they are going to throw as many noodles at the wall as they can, knowing that not all of them will stick.
On paper (again, we'll see in a few years how it works out), the Cubs now have by and far the best farm in baseball, and with the addition of Russell, it may be the most loaded farm I have seen in all of my years.

#28 mike wants wins

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 01:03 PM

Willingham for three years, Doumit twice, Pelfrey twice.....explain Pelfrey or Bartlett or Kubel, how do any of those indicate giving youth a chance? Or Matty G instead of one of many minor league RP? Explain how clogging your forty and twenty five man rosters with guys with no options helps to let you send guys down and up?
Lighten up Francis....

#29 gunnarthor

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:49 PM

Willingham for three years, Doumit twice, Pelfrey twice.....explain Pelfrey or Bartlett or Kubel, how do any of those indicate giving youth a chance? Or Matty G instead of one of many minor league RP? Explain how clogging your forty and twenty five man rosters with guys with no options helps to let you send guys down and up?


Which guys are being clogged? On one hand we're hearing that the Twins rushed Arcia and Hicks and others are complaining that - presumably - the minor leaguers aren't learning at the big league level. Twins don't spend money on FA and now Willingham and Nolasco shouldn't have been signed. I don't see anyone of any future importance being blocked. I don't really care if AJ Achter is up or not.

#30 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:38 PM

7 IP, 1 run allowed, a 4-2 victory for Oakland. How good does Samardzija feel about now?