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A's trade for Samardzija

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#1 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 09:53 AM

http://www.mlbtrader...son-hammel.html

Big trade. I tend to think Samardzija is overrated but Hammel is a bit underrated but both are legit ML pitchers who should help this year. Hammel is a FA at the end of the year and Samardzija has one more year of club control. A's gave the Cubs arguably the best pure shortstop prospect in baseball in Addison Russell, former first rounder Billy McKinney who looks like a nice piece and MLer Dan Straily.

With Russell, I think the Cubs are probably the best farm system in baseball right now, even with Beaz' struggles. Arguably, Bryant and Russell could be ranked ahead of Buxton/Sano respectively.

#2 jaimedude2

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:05 AM

With Russell, I think the Cubs are probably the best farm system in baseball right now, even with Beaz' struggles. Arguably, Bryant and Russell could be ranked ahead of Buxton/Sano respectively.[/QUOTE]

Russell was supposed to be the A's top minor league prospect so wonder if they gave up a lot in this trade or if they know something the rest of us do not about Russell and hoodwinked the Cubs.

I wish the Twins would do what the Cubs are doing and appearing to go young as far as the major league club goes. Not saying trade away top prospects just douche the clubhouse and go young with Polanco, Santana, Vargas, Rosario. It is time to run with the young and talented and dump the plow horses that are slow of foot and play bad defense (Trevour Plouffe) (Chris Parmaleee) (Josh Willingham) just to name a few. Time to move on from Correia and the Pino types in the rotation and bullpen too. This club needs an overhaul and needs to start cleaning house.
Why lose and get your brains beat in with these proven non-winners.

#3 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:11 AM

Nice catch. Oakland is amazing.

Samardzija will add to the top of a rotation that has delivered a stellar 3.34 ERA, but which owns peripherals (3.90 FIP, 3.84 xFIP) that paint a somewhat different picture. More importantly, perhaps, are the question marks that accompany the team’s top three hurlers: staff ace Sonny Gray is up to 111 innings but has never thrown more than 182 1/3 in a season as a pro; the emergent Jesse Chavez (103 innings) is about to pass his career high in innings pitched; and Scott Kazmir has a well-documented injury history.


#4 beckmt

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:30 AM

Trade should set a good benchmark for the Twins as the Cubs seem to be doing it the correct way. Twins need to take some chances and gain some top minor league prospects for 2016-2017. Best way to do this is to trade not only the expected, but also a Dozier and possibly Perkins

#5 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:39 AM

Trade should set a good benchmark for the Twins as the Cubs seem to be doing it the correct way. Twins need to take some chances and gain some top minor league prospects for 2016-2017. Best way to do this is to trade not only the expected, but also a Dozier and possibly Perkins


Well, by 2016-2017 Stewart, Thorpe and Gordon should all be top prospects (if not in the majors). I do agree, however, that the Twins should move Perkins and Dozier if they get a great offer. If the Nats wanted to trade make a trade around Giolito for Dozier for example.

#6 Mike Sixel

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 11:26 AM

It would be nice if the Twins committed to A strategy. Rebuild, or seriously try to win.

#7 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:19 PM

It would be nice if the Twins committed to A strategy. Rebuild, or seriously try to win.


I think it's hard to say that Ryan hasn't been in rebuild mode since he came back.

#8 Mike Sixel

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:23 PM

Not so sure......they seemed to not act that way to me this year, but maybe signing Bartlett and Kubel was part of a rebuild effort somehow.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#9 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:52 PM

Not so sure......they seemed to not act that way to me this year, but maybe signing Bartlett and Kubel was part of a rebuild effort somehow.


Cubs signed John Baker, doesn't mean they aren't rebuilding. I've mentioned it before but last year the Twins graduated 3 top 100 prospects to the majors. You can't do that every year but they are clearly rebuilding.

#10 Mike Sixel

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:41 PM

How are those three doing this year?

#11 jorgenswest

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:46 PM

I think it's hard to say that Ryan hasn't been in rebuild mode since he came back.


I can say it. You don't rebuild with a franchise record number of players in their 30s. You don't rebuild by signing veterans from the bargain bin. You don't rebuild with rosters that are among their oldest rosters since 1998. You don't hang onto a Willingham or Perkins at the trade deadline. You hand the ball to younger players and let them struggle and grow together.

The last two years are failed attempts at trying to give the appearance of being competitive. 2011 was a surprise and might have been explained by injuries. 2012 could have been an attempt to retool. The rebuild should have started mid 2012.

1999-2000 was a rebuild. The Twins rebuilt in the early 80s.

#12 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:58 PM

I can say it. You don't rebuild with a franchise record number of players in their 30s. You don't rebuild by signing veterans from the bargain bin. You don't rebuild with rosters that are among their oldest rosters since 1998. You don't hang onto a Willingham or Perkins at the trade deadline. You hand the ball to younger players and let them struggle and grow together.


Actually, you can rebuild totally independently of those things. As Ryan has been doing.

#13 Otwins

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:18 PM

I think Ryan is rebuilding. He has traded starting major league outfielders for minor league pitching. I just think they are trying to get by signing cheaper veteran players until they feel that the minor league talent is ready. Twins are much closer to being good again than 2-3 years ago. I too wish they would just go with the younger players. I am hoping they will by August.

#14 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:30 PM

Actually, you can rebuild totally independently of those things. As Ryan has been doing.


What do you mean by "rebuild"? It's possible we are all talking past one another if we do not agree on terms.

The 2001 team that surprised everybody and won 85 games averaged about 25.5 years of age. Matt Lawton was the only age 30+ starter in the lineup. And these were the same young guys who went to the ALCS the following year.

Maybe this would be a "rebuild" to the extreme and maybe it wouldn't pay off for a few years, but this is the ideal I think of, when I think of rebuild. No time for the Doumits, Willinghammers, Fulds, Kubels, etc.

#15 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:25 PM

Actually, you can rebuild totally independently of those things. As Ryan has been doing.


This. Rebuilding doesn't mean throwing a guy into the fire who isn't ready. When you have a guy who isn't ready, you get a vet on a short term contract to hold the place.

#16 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:31 PM

This. Rebuilding doesn't mean throwing a guy into the fire who isn't ready. When you have a guy who isn't ready, you get a vet on a short term contract to hold the place.


True. I agree the Hicks experiment has failed for now. He was a guy who wasn't ready.

Willingham and Suzuki have produced, others haven't. I just fear a continuation of the cycle of mediocre vets and a Twins team that's less than the sum of its parts.

#17 jorgenswest

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:02 PM

I don't doubt Ryan is trying to fix the team. It seems a waste of time to try to define rebuild.

One strategy in rebuilding is going young. That isn't the strategy Ryan chose. He is signed low cost decline phase players and given them to a manager who gave them significant at bats and innings. They have failed in their attempt to rebuild with decline phase players. They have failed in any attempt to contend. It is time for a new direction.

#18 Brandon

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:49 PM

I think this year was designed to be a competitive bridge year while waiting for the talent in the minors to develop. there is not many who are long term (Susuki (1 year) Morales (1year), Willingham (last year on contract), Fuld (really). Sano and Buxton should have been able to come up at some point this year while the team hung around .500 and May and Meyer will still get their chance to throw some innings up here too. It sounds like the posters above me are upset that the moves didn't quite work out. Buxton and Sano are both injured. Nolasco has been terrible. Joe Mauer forgot how to hit for most the first half, We all new the Pelfry signing was not a good idea but has been worse then thought possible. Morales has yet to hit.

I thought we were in a rebuild (Arcia, Hicks, Gibson, Dozier, Escobar, Santana, Pinto, Parmelee, Colabello,Theilbar with solid developed young vets Plouffe, Mauer, Perkins, Deunsing, Fien, Hughes, and Nolasco but using veterans Corriea, Pelfry, Willingham, Morales, Florimon, Kubel, and Suzuki, to buy time for the youngsters to get ready. The Twins already got rid of Kubel and Bartlett and kind of Florimon. I suspect Corriea will be gone soon and May and Meyer will get their chances. outside of them and a bullpen arm or 2 I don't see anyone else that is ready to make a significant contribution at the major-league level yet. Again Sano and Buxton were hopefuls to come up this year at some point but are injured. what more can the Twins do at this point to bring players up? I don't necessarily think you need to go so young that all rookies must band together to figure out how to win up here when you can leave the veterans and work in the rookies as they prove ready to come up.

#19 Jim H

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:56 PM

I think that it is basically a bad idea to get young players to the majors before they are "ready". Clearly we all define ready differently. But it is clear that Hicks, Arcia and maybe a few others were likely moved to the majors before they were ready. Yet, their minor league stats indicated they were "ready" or close to it. I think some of the young guys many seem to want up are probably less ready then Hicks or Arcia appeared to be.

There are really 2 issues here. Can being in the majors help the development of a young player or does it hurt them? Clearly, there is no one answer to that, sometimes it helps, sometimes it probably hurts. I feel Delmon Young and Carlos Gomez are 2 fairly recent examples of hose whose development was slowed by being in the majors too soon.

The other issue would be, do you really want to start the major league clock on some these guys who could use more development time, and probably aren't any better than the guy they would be replacing right now(no matter their upside)?

Personally, I don't think it is all that much fun to watch guys who aren't really ready to be in the majors, playing there. I watched that in early 80's and the late 90's. It only became fun when they began to figure things out, even if they weren't winning all that much.

#20 Thrylos

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:12 PM

I think it's hard to say that Ryan hasn't been in rebuild mode since he came back.


Willingham, Carroll, Doumit, Marquis, Correia, Suzuki, Burton, the Capps re-signing, would have to disagree with you.
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