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Berrios - again

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#1 Ncgo4

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:39 PM

Well...another oh hum day for our guy. 6 IP, 0 ER's. Now 9-3 with a 1.93 ERA. Boy, I sure hope they don't force him up too quickly. Probably has too much Left to learn at this level.

#2 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:56 PM

Can't we just be happy about the success of a Twins MiLB player without taking a swipe at the front office for not promoting a 20 year old pitcher to AA after 15 starts?

There's still a lot of season left. If Berrios keeps this up, I can't believe the Twins will keep him in Ft Myers for much longer.

#3 mike wants wins

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:58 PM

Brock, people have been typing "they won't keep him down much longer" for several weeks now.....maybe some of us are just tired of watching bad MLB players, and would like something come up from the minors before we die.*

*obvious hyperbole
Lighten up Francis....

#4 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 02:02 PM

Brock, people have been typing "they won't keep him down much longer" for several weeks now.....maybe some of us are just tired of watching bad MLB players, and would like something come up from the minors before we die.*

*obvious hyperbole


He has 15 starts in A+. He's only 20 years old. It's not as if the Twins have been making him slog through one level a season.

The Twins have the youngest pitcher in the Midwest League (Thorpe) and the youngest pitcher in the Florida State League (Berrios). Let's be reasonable here.

A little patience goes a long ways.

#5 DocBauer

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 02:09 PM

Well...another oh hum day for our guy. 6 IP, 0 ER's. Now 9-3 with a 1.93 ERA. Boy, I sure hope they don't force him up too quickly. Probably has too much Left to learn at this level.


Great post. Is your cheek OK from your tongue being so firmly implanted there? LOL

We simply don't get to see kids like Berrios pitch. Maybe there is something we're missing. I truly get how young he is, and wanting to escalate him too quickly. And maybe his competition is being fooled, but his control is off enough they are worried what would happen at New Britain. Maybe his slide or holding runners on needs work, or whatever. Maybe the Twins are simply perplexed about who he replaces at New Britain, and who replaces him at Ft Meyers.

Regardless, this should be his last start in A ball...period. Berrios was downgraded somewhat in the draft for 2 simple reasons; he wasn't playing for a quality HS program on the mainland, and he didn't have an over 6' 200lbs. stature. But I bet if you could redraft again, he'd be a consensus top 10 pick, if not top 5. From the day he pulled on a professional jersey there hasn't been a negative word spoken about the kid. You've heard and seen nothing but arm talent, athleticism, great work ethic and attitude.

I'm not going to fall in to the easy trap that says he's one in a thousand who can and should jump straight to the majors at his age. Nor will I fall in to a similar trap that says he should be a strong contender for the 2015 rotation. That is too far away for fantastic speculation, there are a couple outstanding arms in front of him, and these things tend to work themselves out anyway.

But his next start absolutely has to be at New Britain. Absolutely everything about this kid and what he's done screams promotion for the next couple of months.

#6 DocBauer

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 02:19 PM

He has 15 starts in A+. He's only 20 years old. It's not as if the Twins have been making him slog through one level a season.

The Twins have the youngest pitcher in the Midwest League (Thorpe) and the youngest pitcher in the Florida League (Berrios). Let's be reasonable here.

A little patience goes a long ways.


Brock, agreeing with you for the most part. And I think I might be the loudest voice here at TD to preach and pronounce patience. And I realize how young Berrios is. People get so obsessed with those very, very few kids who leap to success at the ML level by other 20-21 year olds that they want the Twins to have a player do the same. Or multiple players!

My goodness, before the season even started, there were those speculating that Sano, Buxton and Meyer would be fixtures!

But I have to say, I think there's something special about this kid. Even at 20, with only 15 starts, I think talent and production set Berrios apart and demand a leap up to AA. I'm willing to cool my previous comments about his next start being at New Britain, but, there doesn't honestly doesn't seem to be anything holding back said promotion...soon.

I am NOT saying majors in 2015, or even AAA. After all, forgetting his youth, there are other quality arms in the system ahead of him at the moment. I just feel this kid is really ready for that next step.

#7 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 02:36 PM

I'm quickly becoming a Berrios convert myself.

But the reality is that he's the youngest pitcher in his current league and we're just now entering "promotion season".

Give it a few weeks. Chances are that Berrios ends July in the International League.

#8 DocBauer

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 02:57 PM

I'm quickly becoming a Berrios convert myself.

But the reality is that he's the youngest pitcher in his current league and we're just now entering "promotion season".

Give it a few weeks. Chances are that Berrios ends July in the International League.


Wow!

Not a convert on Berrios, just a believer who is eager and surprised leading to greater conviction. Oh my, forget the religious overtones there. LOL (Bull Durham church of baseball reference going through my head. Lol)

Did you mean International League? Or did you mean Eastern League?

#9 Monkeypaws

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 03:38 PM

Berrios is our highest ranked prospect who is looking great this season. It's nice to have someone killing it.

#10 Thrylos

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 06:05 PM

Berrios is caught into a numbers game. These guys are ahead of him:

AAA: Meyer, Gilmartin, May, Pino, Johnson, Darnell, Diamond
AA: Wheeler, Rogers, Dean, Vasquez, Hermsen
AA/A+: Duffey, Baxendale

enough to fill 3 rotations in 2 levels and I think that other than Diamond and Vasquez (and maybe Hermsen) the Twins will not give up on any of them
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#11 Otwins

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 06:05 PM

Is Berrios on an innings limit? Seems like he wore down last year and his second half was not as good.

#12 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 06:31 PM

Wow!

Not a convert on Berrios, just a believer who is eager and surprised leading to greater conviction. Oh my, forget the religious overtones there. LOL (Bull Durham church of baseball reference going through my head. Lol)

Did you mean International League? Or did you mean Eastern League?


Eastern League. I was a bit hungover earlier.

#13 Ncgo4

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 05:18 AM

Clearly my tongue was planted deep in my cheek. The point is that the kinds of production we've seen from him and the maturity/character reports make him seem to have more than the usual prospect promotability.

My main reason for believing a promotion should be at hand is that I am not sure what more there is to accomplish where he is. As to those ahead of him...who cares? If they are ahead of him let them demonstrate on the field that they belong there. Right now no one at the next level is.

i can certainly feel for the consternation he must be causing the head office. I understand the questions raised by age, size, etc. But I'll bet it's not such a big problem that they wish it would go away.

#14 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:10 AM

Can't we just be happy about the success of a Twins MiLB player without taking a swipe at the front office for not promoting a 20 year old pitcher to AA after 15 starts?

There's still a lot of season left. If Berrios keeps this up, I can't believe the Twins will keep him in Ft Myers for much longer.


I'm pretty sure Stewart is the 2nd youngest in the MWL as well.

#15 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:13 AM

Is Berrios on an innings limit? Seems like he wore down last year and his second half was not as good.


Last year was his first full season of baseball, so the wear down is to be expected. I suspect he will hit a wall later this year at some point, though not nearly as early as last year, so to an extent I think that's normal.

Also of note, he wasn't bad last year, but he wasn't nearly this good. He did little to make a case for a mid-season promotion last season.

#16 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:17 AM

Berrios is caught into a numbers game. These guys are ahead of him:

AAA: Meyer, Gilmartin, May, Pino, Johnson, Darnell, Diamond
AA: Wheeler, Rogers, Dean, Vasquez, Hermsen
AA/A+: Duffey, Baxendale

enough to fill 3 rotations in 2 levels and I think that other than Diamond and Vasquez (and maybe Hermsen) the Twins will not give up on any of them


This hasn't been discussed much, but this is a pretty big factor here. In order to promote someone, someone else has to get promoted or someone has to get released. Most of these guys aren't pitching poorly at all, which is a problem (a good one) for the org.

#17 Jack Torse

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:23 AM

I hope they rush him. He's questionably listed at 6' and likely to break down with that frame. I know they're some exceptions like Pedro Martinez and Tom Gordon but very few 6' right handed pitchers have pitching careers much less long ones.

#18 Thrylos

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:37 AM

I hope they rush him. He's questionably listed at 6' and likely to break down with that frame. I know they're some exceptions like Pedro Martinez and Tom Gordon but very few 6' right handed pitchers have pitching careers much less long ones.


I think I listed that before some place. If you look at the pitchers who got elected to the HOF by the writers since the 90s (which means that played in the last 3-4 decades), or the sure shots like Pedro Martinez, you will not see many over 6'1"-6'2" (Blyleven being an exception and likely Johnson and Halladay) and most of them (Maddux, Glavine, Martinez, Seaver, Niekro) were listed at 6' even or 6'1" and pitchers like Ryan and Eckersley were topping the charts at 6'2". So you have a mix really. I don't think that height has much to do with anything, unless it is in the extremes.
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#19 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:43 AM

I would think that height would affect things like the downward plane on your pitches, and there's plenty of research indicating that guys who get too tall tend to have problems with consistency in their mechanics. I don't see how it affects durability.

#20 JB_Iowa

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 07:30 PM

Seth tweeted that J.O. has been promoted to NB. Assume he'll be doing a story on it:



#21 twinsfanstreif

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 07:35 PM

Seth tweeted that J.O. has been promoted to NB. Assume he'll be doing a story on it:



This is exciting, if he was the youngest in the FSL how far apart in age do you think he will be in AA from his competition? Does anyone have info on this?

#22 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 08:54 PM

I don't have overall AA info, but he's the youngest pitcher on the Rockcats roster by over three years.

#23 mike wants wins

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 08:56 PM

Seth tweeted that J.O. has been promoted to NB. Assume he'll be doing a story on it:


Congrats.
Lighten up Francis....

#24 Bort

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:09 PM

This is exciting, if he was the youngest in the FSL how far apart in age do you think he will be in AA from his competition? Does anyone have info on this?



Pat Dean has almost the same birthday, but is 5 years older. He is listed as 0.2 above the average age by baseball reference, so I am assuming 4.8 years younger.

#25 mike wants wins

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:16 PM

I have always preferred comparing ages of top prospects, not averages across leagues with all the not prospects included. Either way, he is young for his level, and I hope he good at AA this year.
Lighten up Francis....

#26 Jaykay

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:50 PM

Really happy about this, congrats Jose!

#27 drivlikejehu

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 10:12 PM

I think Berrios will be the youngest pitcher in the EL by about a year. It will definitely be interesting.

#28 gunnarthor

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 10:24 PM

Good for him

#29 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:26 AM

Seth tweeted that J.O. has been promoted to NB. Assume he'll be doing a story on it:



Shocking. Absolutely shocking.

This is why we shouldn't holler and scream the day we think a prospect should be promoted.

Again, a little patience goes a long way. In this case, it was all of three days.

#30 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:32 AM

Berrios is now *just barely* the youngest player in the Eastern League. He's the youngest pitcher by close to a year.

http://minorleaguecentral.com/youngest