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Inside Look at the Astros

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#1 TheLeviathan

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 11:43 AM

I thought this was very interesting from a variety of angles.

#2 mike wants wins

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 01:16 PM

Wow. Thanks for the link. No mention of the Twins and Castro, which seemed like such an obvious idea to me last year/over the winter......since he'd still be good in 3+ years probably.
Lighten up Francis....

#3 PseudoSABR

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 01:41 PM

I was going to post this too, Levi. Here's the mlbtraderumors link which consolidates some other sources.

#4 drunksam

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 02:05 PM

Maybe they Duensing Rule isn't as far away from reality as we thought...no wait, it still is.
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#5 mike wants wins

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 02:19 PM

Fangrpahs also has a condensed version.
Lighten up Francis....

#6 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 02:35 PM

Wow. Thanks for the link. No mention of the Twins and Castro, which seemed like such an obvious idea to me last year/over the winter......since he'd still be good in 3+ years probably.

Yeah, I am guessing the Twins were pretty gung ho on fixing the holes this off-season via free agency and holding onto all of their prospects for the rebuild. Also maybe this indicates that they did (and still possibly) view Pinto as the catcher of the future?

Castro obviously wouldn't have cost some elite guy like Sano/Buxton/Stewart/Rosario etc, but chances are it would have taken at least one of the top 20 guys.
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#7 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 02:37 PM

The most hilarious part was them asking for Dylan Bundy for Bud Norris.

I guess it never hurts to ask? Maybe this is how the Twins got Meyer for Span?
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#8 gunnarthor

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 03:14 PM

The most hilarious part was them asking for Dylan Bundy for Bud Norris.

I guess it never hurts to ask? Maybe this is how the Twins got Meyer for Span?


I thought Bogaerts for Norris was even crazier.

#9 TheLeviathan

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 04:53 PM

The clear lesson from this is GMs are calling around and asking for insane packages
I had a dozen "Seriously you asked for that prospect for that player?" reactions
It was video game dumb sometimes.

#10 Riverbrian

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 06:53 PM

I think that this has to be the worst nightmare for an organization. Not just for the Astros but for every team mentioned.

The Astros have a lot of damage to repair because of this... The players discussed... the other GM's you've worked with... What a horrible situation.... I'd really want and need to know how this happened if I were them. You got to get to the bottom of this.

as for us normal Folk... Fascinating reading... I hope it happens again so I can read it.

Edited by Riverbrian, 30 June 2014 - 08:01 PM.

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#11 JB_Iowa

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 07:08 PM

They've apparently called in the FBI.

But yeah, they are in damage repair mode and calling some of it total fabrication.

#12 Jim H

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 07:52 PM

You can see from this why the Twins front office seems so closed mouthed about trade discussions and such. No player would enjoy seeing his name associated with most of these trade discussions. You know obviously that almost any player's name can come up, clearly part of a GM's job is determine who might be available and whether he can be obtained for someone not really in the long term plans. Still, knowing that your name is being thrown around like some sort of fantasy league deal, would be rather unsettling.

#13 PseudoSABR

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 10:06 PM

The clear lesson from this is GMs are calling around and asking for insane packages
I had a dozen "Seriously you asked for that prospect for that player?" reactions
It was video game dumb sometimes.

There's the attitude that suggests that "it can't hurt to ask." But, imo, that just sours business relationships, because it shows not only a lack of respect but also seriousness.

The Astros will be interesting to watch in the following years.

Edited by PseudoSABR, 30 June 2014 - 11:36 PM.


#14 TheLeviathan

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 06:38 AM

There's the attitude that suggests that "it can't hurt to ask." But, imo, that just sours business relationships, because it shows not only a lack of respect but also seriousness.

The Astros will be interesting to watch in the following years.


Right, my impression from some of those trade talks was to wonder why a guy would pick up the phone at all. Especially to Houston given some of those demands they were throwing around.

#15 nicksaviking

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 07:01 AM

That was great. It was particularly interesting that the Astros front office had info about other teams that I don't believe the media had. Like the fact that the rockies bid $62 million on Abreu and the fact that the Royals told them they expect their payroll to be $85 million next year.

Maybe that stuff was public knowledge but generally it isn't. I'm sure people speculated about the Royals payroll, but when does a front office ever tell their fanbase what their payroll is going to be going into free agency?

So either teams are freely telling other clubs about this stuff, trusting them not to leak it and not caring about losing any competitve edge by keeping this stuff to themselves, or the front offices have better moles within eachother's organizations than the media does.

Edited by nicksaviking, 01 July 2014 - 07:03 AM.


#16 tobi0040

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 07:11 AM

The most hilarious part was them asking for Dylan Bundy for Bud Norris.

I guess it never hurts to ask? Maybe this is how the Twins got Meyer for Span?



The Bundy thing, and Boagarts thing was pretty funny. I wonder if Terry is calling teams and making crazy demands for Kevin Correia. Corriea for Tavares?

#17 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 07:40 AM

I bet every team is reviewing how they handle and store, and who has access to, player information.

#18 nicksaviking

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 07:57 AM

I bet every team is reviewing how they handle and store, and who has access to, player information.


Well it sounds to me that the only issue was not having the latest Norton Anti-virus to prevent the spyware that got into the system. I thought it implied that outside deviants were just easily able to get in. I didn't think anyone internal was to blame. Except for the programmers they hired out of the local tech school.

#19 mike wants wins

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 08:21 AM

Nice condescending remark about IT people.

#20 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 08:38 AM

What's likely is that some jackhole in the Astros organization had a password of "password" or "mom".

As rigorous as IT can be about security, it's still only as strong as your dumbest user and as an IT architect, you can only do so much to protect your data. Some of the responsibility falls on the users for not being idiots and doing things like sharing passwords between systems (a compromised password in one system suddenly becomes compromised everywhere it is used), writing down passwords on paper, or emailing sensitive information.

On topic, asking for Bundy and Bogaerts for Norris is all sorts of hilarious. I can imagine that more than one phone call ended with "Are you kidding me?" before a click was heard on the other line.

Yes, it sometimes does hurt to ask. Any good opening offer should at least pique curiosity, not outright rejection and laughter.

#21 tobi0040

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 09:12 AM

What's likely is that some jackhole in the Astros organization had a password of "password" or "mom".

As rigorous as IT can be about security, it's still only as strong as your dumbest user and as an IT architect, you can only do so much to protect your data. Some of the responsibility falls on the users for not being idiots and doing things like sharing passwords between systems (a compromised password in one system suddenly becomes compromised everywhere it is used), writing down passwords on paper, or emailing sensitive information.

On topic, asking for Bundy and Bogaerts for Norris is all sorts of hilarious. I can imagine that more than one phone call ended with "Are you kidding me?" before a click was heard on the other line.

Yes, it sometimes does hurt to ask. Any good opening offer should at least pique curiosity, not outright rejection and laughter.


It is usually a good strategy to ask for something you likely won't get, then "settle" for something that you want. However, as you point out, when the guy hangs up on you and thinks you are wasting his time then you may lose credibility and not get to that second offer.

#22 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 09:19 AM

It is usually a good strategy to ask for something you likely won't get, then "settle" for something that you want. However, as you point out, when the guy hangs up on you and thinks you are wasting his time then you may lose credibility and not get to that second offer.


Yep. I'm all in favor of opening negotiations with a low-ball offer but those Norris proposals were insane. You have to start at a point where the other guy listens instead of hangs up and resumes playing Mine Sweeper.

#23 nicksaviking

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 09:25 AM

Nice condescending remark about IT people.


Well it was more a condescending remark about the quality of the IT people they hired, but it was pretty dumb of me to imply tech school IT people are subpar, I know they're not.

I probably should have stuck to something factual and less offensive like, Texans are idiots.

#24 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 09:26 AM

Ell-Oh-Ell.

#25 TheLeviathan

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 10:49 AM

What's likely is that some jackhole in the Astros organization had a password of "password" or "mom".


a6b018255b32a09e2be317dffb1ab250.jpg

#26 ashburyjohn

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 12:27 PM

Yep. I'm all in favor of opening negotiations with a low-ball offer but those Norris proposals were insane.


These notes don't imply to me that a Span-Meyer style swap was proposed. The intent might be to see whether a mention of Bogaerts gets the expected response or a "well, not just for Norris, obviously" reaction that could lead to more. Obviously it requires some "touch", otherwise you end up with a bad reputation forever.

As an experienced OOTP trader I can tell you that my best swaps often involve none of the players originally mentioned. :roll:

#27 biggentleben

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 01:42 PM

Marcus Stroman has to feel very valued by his org right now to hear that he was shopped heavily both at the trade deadline and in the offseason as a chip in a direct or three-way trade.
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#28 ashburyjohn

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 02:59 PM

Marcus Stroman has to feel very valued by his org right now to hear that he was shopped heavily both at the trade deadline and in the offseason as a chip in a direct or three-way trade.


That guy just about HAS to get traded to Houston eventually, doesn't he? 'Stro-Man?

#29 kydoty

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 10:18 AM

The clear lesson from this is GMs are calling around and asking for insane packages
I had a dozen "Seriously you asked for that prospect for that player?" reactions
It was video game dumb sometimes.


You know that guy in your fantasy league who on a weekly basis offers everyone completely one-sided trades that no one in their right mind would even bother reading, let alone considering?

The Astros GM is "that guy".

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#30 kydoty

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 10:37 AM

From the comments:

[Nationals GM Mike] Rizzo called [Luhnow] to inquire on Harrell. JL told him we would still need a headliner like Giolito because we still value Harrell highly. Rizzo did not respond immediately.


To be fair, Rizzo thought his laughter from that one could be heard 1,500 miles away.

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