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#1
Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:31 AM
Harper came up with two outs in the first inning and Hamels promptly drilled the 19-year-old.
Why, exactly?
''That's something I grew up watching, that's kind of what happened. So I'm just trying to continue the old baseball because I think some people are kind of getting away from it. I remember when I was a rookie the strike zone was really, really small and you didn't say anything because that's the way baseball is,'' Hamels said.
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Curious as to how others feel about this. I would suspend him for 10 games. There is no excuse for recklessly endangering another player like that in the name of "old baseball". Throwing at a guy is not a baseball play. I pay to watch big league pitchers paint corners, not bean guys.
There's too much blind deference to tradition in baseball. It's the last sport to have instant replay because of that. There's no point in carrying on or trying to reclaim stupid traditions for tradition's sake. It was once traditional to have separate leagues for players of different colors. Does Hamels want to go back to that as well because we've gotten away from it?
#2
Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:58 AM
One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.
#3
Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:15 AM
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#4
Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:20 AM
In the third inning, Washington starter Jordan Zimmermann hit Hamels in the left leg with one out and a runner on first when the Phillies pitcher squared to bunt. Home plate umpire Andy Fletcher warned both dugouts.
to the OP: this is not reckless endangerement... Hamels hit Harper on the butt and Hamels got hit on the calf. Not like headhunting...
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#5
Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:29 AM
#6
Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:07 AM
#7
Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:58 AM
#8
Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:06 AM
to the OP: this is not reckless endangerement... Hamels hit Harper on the butt and Hamels got hit on the calf. Not like headhunting...
Of course it's reckless endangerment. Yes, it's different than headhunting. Headhunting is not reckless, it's intent to injure. Recklessness is willful disregard to the potential harm caused to others. It is defined by the risks created, not the resulting consequences. What Hamels did is textbook recklessness. Throwing a baseball at someone is putting them at risk of injury. The fact that no actual harm came is irrelevant.
The "nobody got hurt, so therefore it's OK" argument doesn't fly with me. This is the same logic employed people who claim that they drive better when they are drunk, do it all the time and have never hurt anyone, therefore it's OK for them to continue doing it.
Edited by one_eyed_jack, 07 May 2012 - 10:11 AM.
#9
Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:08 AM
Personally, I like it. I like the tradition stuff. I like how it'll add another layer to the Nats/Phillies rivalry. Remember when Hunter destroyed (totally unnecessarily) the White Sox catcher (Burke, I believe)? That stuff makes rivalries better.
---So unnecessary risk of injury makes the game better? Should we allow guys to carry the bat with them after they put the ball in play and try to prevent the first baseman from catching the throw by whacking them with it? I'm sure that would up the intensity and stir up some rivalries.
#10
Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:09 AM
Nothing is so annoying as someone going on talking when I'm interrupting.
#11
Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:23 AM
---So unnecessary risk of injury makes the game better? Should we allow guys to carry the bat with them after they put the ball in play and try to prevent the first baseman from catching the throw by whacking them with it? I'm sure that would up the intensity and stir up some rivalries.
No, then you would have to rename the game...maybe call it hockey!
#12
Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:29 AM
One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.
#13
Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:45 AM
#14
Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:58 AM
Rookie hazing is out of 1950s thinking, it's time we all grew up.
You can just as easily reverse this view, and recognize that these are indeed grown men, looking for every edge possible in pursuit of success. Knowing who will back down and who will not, is part of that. No one wants Tony Conigliaro events to occur; the game seems to police itself well enough to avoid that.
#15
Posted 07 May 2012 - 12:55 PM
One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.
#16
Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:13 PM
Grown men don't need to throw balls at each other, they should play the game. I don't get how anyone even thinks this is still a good idea. Was it entertaining? Did it help his team win? I am truly baffled by anyone thinking this is somehow a good idea. How did it give the Phllies any edge at all? Baffled, truly baffled that people still think stuff like this is good for the world or baseball or the fans or any player.
---Yeah I'm with you. This isn't one of those issues where reasonable minds may disagree. There is no redeeming value to what Hamels did, it's indefensible to put guys at risk of injury in the name of carrying on a childish hazing tradition.
Think of it this way: suppose Hamels show of faux machismo had gone horribly wrong. What if instead of plunking him in the back, he hit him in the face, left him with eye damages, and ended his short career? Would you buy "well, I was trying to bring back old school baseball" as a valid excuse? Of course not.
And don't start in with the "there was no chance of that happening" argument. Yes, MLB pitchers are accurate, but they aren't perfect. Would you be willing to stand 60.5 feet away from Cole Hamels, legs apart, with your knees on either side of an 'X' painted on the wall behind you and let him throw as hard as he could at the 'X'? If you really believe there's no chance of him missing his intended target, you shouldn't have a problem with it.
#17
Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:33 PM
#18
Guest_USAFChief_*
Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:20 PM
#19
Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:39 AM
---Yeah I'm with you. This isn't one of those issues where reasonable minds may disagree. There is no redeeming value to what Hamels did, it's indefensible to put guys at risk of injury in the name of carrying on a childish hazing tradition.
Think of it this way: suppose Hamels show of faux machismo had gone horribly wrong. What if instead of plunking him in the back, he hit him in the face, left him with eye damages, and ended his short career? Would you buy "well, I was trying to bring back old school baseball" as a valid excuse? Of course not.
And don't start in with the "there was no chance of that happening" argument. Yes, MLB pitchers are accurate, but they aren't perfect. Would you be willing to stand 60.5 feet away from Cole Hamels, legs apart, with your knees on either side of an 'X' painted on the wall behind you and let him throw as hard as he could at the 'X'? If you really believe there's no chance of him missing his intended target, you shouldn't have a problem with it.
Doesn't ever happen much though does it? Curious. What Hamels did is part of the code of the game, some feel that the code isn't as strong as it used to be and the game in a certain sense is less respectful. Guys like Hamels and Verlander want to protect the code, it's their code, not yours, who are you to judge? I'll lay you 100-1 Harper had no issue with it, he knows why it happened and he took it, lived with it and made them pay. My money says Hamels respects him for it.
Not sure where all of this 50's nonsense is coming from, the code and it's many facets have always been around, batters getting hit isn't some 50's throwback, it's always been the way, as have many other "in house" rulings. You think Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan or Jack Morris never threw at guys intentionally? Damn right they did and they'd be the 1st to admit it and wouldn't have any time for critics who never stepped foot in a major league dugout.
Baseball is a child's game played by grown men, the whole thing is childish, why should this be any different?
#20
Posted 08 May 2012 - 03:55 AM
Doesn't ever happen much though does it? Curious. What Hamels did is part of the code of the game, some feel that the code isn't as strong as it used to be and the game in a certain sense is less respectful. Guys like Hamels and Verlander want to protect the code, it's their code, not yours, who are you to judge? I'll lay you 100-1 Harper had no issue with it, he knows why it happened and he took it, lived with it and made them pay. My money says Hamels respects him for it.
Not sure where all of this 50's nonsense is coming from, the code and it's many facets have always been around, batters getting hit isn't some 50's throwback, it's always been the way, as have many other "in house" rulings. You think Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan or Jack Morris never threw at guys intentionally? Damn right they did and they'd be the 1st to admit it and wouldn't have any time for critics who never stepped foot in a major league dugout.
Baseball is a child's game played by grown men, the whole thing is childish, why should this be any different?
1) The fact that it doesn't happen much is irrelevant. That's the "I drive drunk all the time and have never gotten into an accident, so I don't see what the problem is" argument. Why should it take a tragedy to strike for the culture to change?
2) Interesting that you think I'm not entitled to an opinion on this because I've never set foot in an MLB dugout, but you presume to know how Harper feels about getting beaned and how past MLB players would react to my criticism. That's the discredit the argument by discrediting the arguer tactic, which is typically resorted to when one has no facts or logic to defend their position. It's like when cops respond to criticisms of police brutality and coerced confessions with "well you've never served on the force" There is no reason you can't criticize the culture of a profession you've never been a part of.
3) Of course plenty of pitchers have thrown at guys over the years. Nobody said Hamels was the first is decades to do this. It's the mindset that's out of the 50's, or perhpas earlier - the simple-minded ideology of blindly following tradition straight out of "The Lottery".