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#1 J-Dog Dungan

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:50 PM

With the call-up of Dozier, what are the chances that the Twins start dividing Valencia's playing time with Carroll? And, if Valencia's playing time isn't affected, what does that do to Carroll's playing time?

#2 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:58 PM

You want a .200 hitting .250 slugging 3B player over there. Wait am I talking about Carroll or Valencia?? Dont want Carroll over there cept in an emergency. This season is lost & Danny needs to play to see what he's got

#3 spideyo

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:00 PM

I think it's more likely that he splits time with Casilla, or that he starts the game at 2b, and then slides over to 3b when they bring casilla in as a late-inning pinch runner. What might happen, and might not be a bad plan, is that in a four game stretch Valencia, Dozier, Carroll and Casilla each have one day off, with Carroll filling in for whoever has the day off.

#4 Rosterman

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:20 PM

Well, who DHs when Doumit is in right field, since it looks like Plouffe will stay on the bench. Why not give Revere a good week or so out there before Morneau returns...but sadly he won't play first and Pamelee will stay up here. Tne Twins suddenly have a lot of role players but few regulars......

#5 Shane Wahl

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:21 PM

I think it's more likely that he splits time with Casilla, or that he starts the game at 2b, and then slides over to 3b when they bring casilla in as a late-inning pinch runner.

What might happen, and might not be a bad plan, is that in a four game stretch Valencia, Dozier, Carroll and Casilla each have one day off, with Carroll filling in for whoever has the day off.


Yes, I am thinking that the latter scenario might happen. And maybe against lefties sometimes all of them are in the lineup with Valencia DHing. A rotation like that might be good for all of them, actually.

#6 Shane Wahl

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:22 PM

Well, who DHs when Doumit is in right field, since it looks like Plouffe will stay on the bench. Why not give Revere a good week or so out there before Morneau returns...but sadly he won't play first and Pamelee will stay up here. Tne Twins suddenly have a lot of role players but few regulars......


Doumit is going to be catching or DHing almost exclusively now while Morneau is out and Butera is on the roster.

#7 Shane Wahl

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:32 PM

During this time I would like to see a RF platoon straight up for Plouffe and Komatsu (since they are committed to playing him for awhile).

#8 spideyo

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:34 PM

Doumit is going to be catching or DHing almost exclusively now while Morneau is out and Butera is on the roster.


I'd expect Doumit to stay out of RF until they figure out if Eric K is worth anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see him doing some time at 1b. So far we're 1-0 with Butera catching, if he hits like he was in AAA he'll be outhitting half our lineup. Maybe he'll be able to coax some better performances out of our pitchers than Doumit has.

#9 TwinsFan01

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:11 AM

I've never played or managed professional baseball, so I honestly don't know the answer to what might be a really stupid question...at this point would there be any advantage (or disadvantage) to setting a lineup and keeping it consistent for a couple weeks? I get that we're desperate to figure out a formula that works (though isn't that what spring training was for?) But in the meantime, I don't see these guys developing any rhythm and getting comfortable in their positions or place in the batting order when it's all just a revolving door. Things really can't get much worse at this point - what would be the downside of setting a lineup and sticking with it for a while, rather than fielding a different team every night?

#10 powrwrap

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:21 AM

This season is lost & Danny needs to play to see what he's got


What you have is a .240 hitter with occasional power that strikes out 10X as many times as he walks and is fundamentally flawed in the field. We don't need to see what he's got, it's a known quantity.
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#11 powrwrap

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:23 AM

Things really can't get much worse at this point - what would be the downside of setting a lineup and sticking with it for a while, rather than fielding a different team every night?


Some guys simply can't hit left-handed pitching. Some guys have trouble with a sinkerball throwing righty. You have to adjust the lineup's strength to the other team's weaknesses (and vice-versa)
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#12 stringer bell

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:35 AM

I see Carroll as the guy moving around and filling in at three positions. He has been a utility player for his whole career. Giving the robust stats of the other two guys, Carroll should get plenty of playing time. I was mentally comparing Carroll and Casilla. Carroll gets more walks, has more extended at-bats, and is more prone to move the runner over while Casilla has the higher batting average and just enough power to be played like a normal hitter (it is my pet peeve to see hitters played like little leaguers like they do for Carroll and Revere). Casilla is a good base stealer, Carroll not quite. Offensive edge (barely) to Casilla. Defensively Carroll has made all the plays, and played fundamentally sound at the most important defensive position in the infield. Casilla had one bad game (really one bad inning) in the field, but otherwise has been solid with a few outstanding plays mixed in. Defensive advantage--Carroll. Casilla is 28 in July, Carroll turned 38 this winter--advantage Casilla. I think Casilla get the majority of starts at second, with Carroll reverting to utility or perhaps 10th regular status.

#13 TwinsFan01

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:55 AM

Some guys simply can't hit left-handed pitching. Some guys have trouble with a sinkerball throwing righty. You have to adjust the lineup's strength to the other team's weaknesses (and vice-versa)


That certainly makes sense for a team with some depth and where you have that kind of flexibility. But right now none of our guys can seem to hit anything so I'm not sure it matters.

#14 StormJH1

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:50 AM

I see Carroll as the guy moving around and filling in at three positions. He has been a utility player for his whole career. Giving the robust stats of the other two guys, Carroll should get plenty of playing time. I was mentally comparing Carroll and Casilla. Carroll gets more walks, has more extended at-bats, and is more prone to move the runner over while Casilla has the higher batting average and just enough power to be played like a normal hitter (it is my pet peeve to see hitters played like little leaguers like they do for Carroll and Revere). Casilla is a good base stealer, Carroll not quite. Offensive edge (barely) to Casilla. Defensively Carroll has made all the plays, and played fundamentally sound at the most important defensive position in the infield. Casilla had one bad game (really one bad inning) in the field, but otherwise has been solid with a few outstanding plays mixed in. Defensive advantage--Carroll. Casilla is 28 in July, Carroll turned 38 this winter--advantage Casilla. I think Casilla get the majority of starts at second, with Carroll reverting to utility or perhaps 10th regular status.

Good take. It's not that I hate Carroll being on this team, I just think they should be bothering with him at such a critical position when we need to start answering questions about our future. Every organization should have glove-only SS's in the Double-A and Triple-A that can handle that part of the game fine, even if they hit around the Mendoza line. I would rather have used the Carroll money on a veteran 3B (as in, better than Burroughs) to push Valencia, then buy a stopgap veteran at shortstop who we all knew CAN'T HIT.

At least now they'll start looking at guys like Dozier, but I think Valencia is out of here for the first respectable offer they get. Mauer and Morneau, the supposed "leadership" of this team either aren't tough enough mentally or aren't interested in policing guys like Valencia. His attitude would be no issue if he were decent, but the reality is that he sucks. And if you suck AND have a bad attitude on this team, you lose your "scrappiness scholarship" from Gardy and find your way off this team pretty quickly.

#15 nicksaviking

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:07 AM

What you have is a .240 hitter with occasional power that strikes out 10X as many times as he walks and is fundamentally flawed in the field. We don't need to see what he's got, it's a known quantity.


I think the belief is that Valencia needs to play everyday because the law of averages says at some point he's going to get hot again which could increase the return on any trade that is in the works for him.

It's a moot point anyway. Casilla normally would have seen a DL stint or two by now, he's playing on borrowed time. When he goes down there is no need to sweat the infield roster shuffle.

#16 Seth Stohs

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:21 AM

My personal opinion is that Dozier plays every day (most days) at SS, and that Carroll plays most days at 2B. Casilla and Carroll can both get some time at 3B too, but Valencia needs to keep playing.

#17 071063

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:43 AM

Seth, does that mean that the Casilla experiment is over and he won't be with the Twins next year or am I reading too much into your statement?

#18 stringer bell

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:48 AM

My personal opinion is that Dozier plays every day (most days) at SS, and that Carroll plays most days at 2B. Casilla and Carroll can both get some time at 3B too, but Valencia needs to keep playing.

Even with the dismissal of both Hughes and Burroughs, I don't see Casilla playing much 3B. If somebody moves over there, it will be either Carroll or (less likely) Plouffe.

#19 ashburyjohn

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:04 AM

Yahoo's Twins page had this snippet:
When asked what he expected moving forward Sunday, Carroll said he was in the dark.
"I don't know what anything entails. I don't know what I need to be doing," he said. "So I don't have an answer for you."

I take this to imply he's not totally cool with going back to a fill-in role; this was not a "just happy to be here, anything to help the team" quote. Probably he was given assurances during the free-agent negotiation that SS would be his for the season, and it's not like he's the scapegoat for the whole season starting off bad. He'll go along with it, as he's a good guy, but at this point it stings.

Edited by ashburyjohn, 07 May 2012 - 11:13 AM.


#20 CDog

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:05 AM

Casilla normally would have seen a DL stint or two by now, he's playing on borrowed time. When he goes down there is no need to sweat the infield roster shuffle.


You know the season is a month old and a trip to the DL is 15 days, right?

#21 CDog

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:12 AM

I don't get it, really. Carroll hasn't hit for average, but he's leading the team in walks so he's getting on base and he's been better than I'd say most/all expected in the field. Dozier's numbers are good-not-great a level below the big leagues, and that includes his blistering start. It seems like crowding an area of (relative) strength without addressing the areas of more weakness. With a little more thought, it seems even more gloomy because I'm sure they know the areas of strength and weakness and there is probably nothing better to be done. It all is really telling how valuable it would be to have Morneau at 1B. When he moved to full-time DH, it shuffled so many spots on the roster making RF the chaos it has been and really affected how to get Doumit in the lineup as much as planned. Now the move from DH to DL has amplified all of that. It's frustrating.

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:27 AM

We all sort of like Carroll, but he's 38 and not going to be the SS on the next good Twins team. Time to start looking for that person. I doubt Casilla is going to be the second baseman on the next good Twins team, so I would start looking for him too, and give Plouffe an extended look at 2b.

#23 Curt

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:42 AM

I don't get it, really. Carroll hasn't hit for average, but he's leading the team in walks so he's getting on base and he's been better than I'd say most/all expected in the field. Dozier's numbers are good-not-great a level below the big leagues, and that includes his blistering start.


I pretty much agree. Carroll is not THE Twins' problem. I think he has done a pretty good job and I think he will get plenty of playing time still. That said, a team on pace to lose 120 games that replaces a 38-year-old shortstop who is hitting around .200 with a top prospect is not a cause for concern. I hope Dozier is ready and capable. In Carroll's favor are the likelihood that Dozier is either not ready or capable and the proven facts that Casilla and Valencia, among others, have very tenuous holds on their respective spots in the lineup and on the team. All but Mauer, Span, Willingham and Morneau are marginal. Everyone needs to make the most of the opportunities they get going forward.

#24 powrwrap

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:45 PM

Valencia needs to keep playing.


Why? The guy is a liability at the plate and in the field. He played in 154 games last year and put up these numbers: .246/.294/.393 while drawing the wrath of Gardy for his shoddy defense. He's not going to get better.
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#25 Shane Wahl

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:45 PM

Why? The guy is a liability at the plate and in the field. He played in 154 games last year and put up these numbers: .246/.294/.393 while drawing the wrath of Gardy for his shoddy defense. He's not going to get better.


Yeah, I would have expected Valencia to split the difference between 2010 and 2011. That would have been fine. But this is looking like it may be hard for him to repeat last year's performance. That is not fine at all.

#26 nicksaviking

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:54 PM

The Twins need to be giving everyone they have a hope of trading as much playing time as possible. Intermixing the soon to be departed with the young blood is going to start clubhouse tension if it hasn't already. Give the trade pieces regular jobs and pray they build value by the deadline. Starting August 1, assuming five or so vets get moved, than the youth movement can begin. Letting all the youngsters play together will help the cohesiveness better than having them play alongside the vets they are going to replace. At that point, when we see a lineup with 4-6 newbies, when we can start to evaluate them against the early 80's and 00's young teams.

#27 powrwrap

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 02:28 PM

Give the trade pieces regular jobs and pray they build value by the deadline.


Who do you consider to be trade pieces? That could build more value?

The ones I can think of are Liriano, Span, Carroll, Casilla, Pavano, and Capps. Possibly Morneau. They already have regular jobs. Mauer and Willingham are not going to be traded. Nobody else on the team is worth any trade value. There's no value to build.
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#28 spideyo

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 02:39 PM

Valencia could be a trade piece, but probably only as part of a package or for low-level prospects at this point. Same thing with Parmelee. If Gray and Burton keep the same line they've been pitching, they would be very valuable for contenders looking for one more arm. Revere is an exciting young player, and someone would be willing to give him a shot. Doumit would be a nice addition for a team that has a Butera-esque backup catcher, or loses a catcher/dh to injury.

#29 Shane Wahl

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 02:41 PM

I don't get it, really. Carroll hasn't hit for average, but he's leading the team in walks so he's getting on base and he's been better than I'd say most/all expected in the field. Dozier's numbers are good-not-great a level below the big leagues, and that includes his blistering start. It seems like crowding an area of (relative) strength without addressing the areas of more weakness. With a little more thought, it seems even more gloomy because I'm sure they know the areas of strength and weakness and there is probably nothing better to be done. It all is really telling how valuable it would be to have Morneau at 1B. When he moved to full-time DH, it shuffled so many spots on the roster making RF the chaos it has been and really affected how to get Doumit in the lineup as much as planned. Now the move from DH to DL has amplified all of that. It's frustrating.


Well that coupled with Willingham's inability to move to RF (I know he has been dynamite at the plate, but still). I cannot imagine that the Twins collective RF numbers have been better than Revere would have been as the primary LF.

#30 Curt

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 03:07 PM

Well that coupled with Willingham's inability to move to RF (I know he has been dynamite at the plate, but still). I cannot imagine that the Twins collective RF numbers have been better than Revere would have been as the primary LF.


shanewahl, did you see this? http://hardballtalk....itions-to-date/

It lists the worst OPS by team and position so far. Tenth worst is Twins right field with OPS of .492. Revere's OPS last year was .619. Don't celebrate too soon that the Twins only had the tenth worst. Four of the top twenty-five belong to the Twins.