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Article: Jared Burton, the case for dismissal.

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#1 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 06:09 PM

I can't stand watching Jared Burton pitch for the Twins any longer. I got so steamed up I wrote an article about it. I don't understand why Gardenhire and the gang keep giving him high leverage opportunities, or any opportunities at all. Yuck.

http://twinsdaily.co...e-for-dismissal

#2 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 06:31 PM

Hey Paul. I like the articles and comments you give on TD.

We all know Burton is doomed for failure, but what the hell - he looked good today. Let's briefly basque in it.

His time will come and I too am left scratching my head why they put him in high leverage situations.

I hope for the best, but his clock should definitely be ticking. Who knows, maybe he builds up some value before the trade deadline and we receive a DQ Dilly Bar or a small Cherry Arctic blast blended with ice cream... great return if you ask me.

PS - Why did DQ get rid of the Mister Misty name - sort of bums me out.:(

#3 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 06:35 PM

DILLY BAR!!!!!

I suppose if the Twins could find a way to get me a frozen DQ treat I'd be willing to stop blasting Jared Burton for up to three outings.

We need to find an insider at DQ to make this happen, and to find out about Mister Misty.

Or the Twins can just DFA Burton and I'll be able to rest easy. No one has caused my heart rate to jump like Jared Burton since the days of Cardiac Capps.

#4 Thrylos

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 06:36 PM

No one has caused my heart rate to jump like Jared Burton since the days of Cardiac Capps.


You should be glad you were not born when Ike's dad was pitching.
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#5 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 06:43 PM

DILLY BAR!!!!!

I suppose if the Twins could find a way to get me a frozen DQ treat I'd be willing to stop blasting Jared Burton for up to three outings.

We need to find an insider at DQ to make this happen, and to find out about Mister Misty.

Or the Twins can just DFA Burton and I'll be able to rest easy. No one has caused my heart rate to jump like Jared Burton since the days of Cardiac Capps.


Well, our first action would be to have them (Dairy Queen) change "Arctic Blast" back to "Mister Misty". It's a damn crime against humanity.

I do believe the Twins owe all fans a free 5$ DQ treat for the pain they have inflicted by running Burton out there as much as they have. I just turned 39 years old, but I am living in the body of a 54 year old. To this, I blame the Twins usage of Burton. This also, is a crime against humanity.

#6 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 06:51 PM

You should be glad you were not born when Ike's dad was pitching.


Who doesn't love Eisenhower?

I Like Ike, and he was born in 1890.

Was his dad a dark ages baseball star?

#7 Hawkeye12

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 06:52 PM

Burton seems to me like a guy that thrives under more pressure than not. It's the worthless, blow out games where he'll have a bad inning to bloat his ERA when in reality, those games are just "eating innings" anyway. But that's generally the case for all relievers and why they try not to use closers in non-save situations.

#8 Kelly Vance

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 06:54 PM

Burton has looked good his last 5 outings. He corrected something

#9 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 06:59 PM

Sorry about my last post Paul, off topic a little.

Burton was good in 2012 (caught a little lightning in a bottle)

He was okay in 2013, with definite cracks in facade after June.

2014 - he is what he is - filler - I do not get why the Twins use him how they do?

Edited by Bark's Lounge, 22 June 2014 - 07:01 PM.
Spelling Correction


#10 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:03 PM

Burton seems to me like a guy that thrives under more pressure than not. It's the worthless, blow out games where he'll have a bad inning to bloat his ERA when in reality, those games are just "eating innings" anyway. But that's generally the case for all relievers and why they try not to use closers in non-save situations.


Burton is not a guy who thrives under pressure. From my last article:

"Even more unsettling is his work in high leverage situations. According to Fangraphs, he's pitching to the tune of .215/.329/.391 in low leverage situations, .250/.294/.500 in medium leverage situations and a disgusting .368/.429/.526 in high level situations.

We see the same trend when we look at his numbers with men on base. With the bases empty he's a respectable .183/.300/.367, but with men on it's .321/.377/.527 and with men in scoring position a laughabale .342/.375/.622, that's a .410 wOBA! Yikes!"

#11 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:05 PM

Sorry about my last post Paul, off topic a little.

Burton was good in 2012 (caught a little lightning in a bottle)

He was okay in 2013, with definite cracks in facade after June.

2014 - he is what he is - filler - I do not get why the Twins use him how they do?


Burton is definitely surviving on hope and dreams connected to his 2012 performance. He's already given up as many HR as he did in 2012, but in half as many innings, and has nearly given up as many runs as he did over the course of 62 innings pitched in 2012.

Any way you slice it, Burton just hasn't been good this season. He's better than he was in April, but even if he can pitch to a 4ish ERA for the rest of the season, what's the advantage in having that guy on the squad? There are half a dozen guys in the AAA pen pitching better than that. Give any one of them a shot.

#12 JB_Iowa

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:06 PM

Statistics aside, I'm betting the front office is looking at:


  • Seth Stohs ‏@SethTweets 33m
    Jared Burton hasn't allowed a run in his last 5 outings (including today), 9 of last 11 outings.


    [FONT=georgia]Jared Burton[/FONT] [FONT=georgia]rhp[/FONT]
    [FONT=georgia]2 years/$5.5M (2013-14), plus 2015 option


    And hoping they might be able to spin him into some kind of return.[/FONT]

#13 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:12 PM

Burton is definitely surviving on hope and dreams connected to his 2012 performance. He's already given up as many HR as he did in 2012, but in half as many innings, and has nearly given up as many runs as he did over the course of 62 innings pitched in 2012.

Any way you slice it, Burton just hasn't been good this season. He's better than he was in April, but even if he can pitch to a 4ish ERA for the rest of the season, what's the advantage in having that guy on the squad? There are half a dozen guys in the AAA pen pitching better than that. Give any one of them a shot.


Agreed. He should be gone, replaced with Tonkin or whom ever. I turned the game off in the the bottom of the 9th today. I did not have the guts to deal with it.

#14 ScottyB

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:14 PM

Yeah, at this point I'm just hoping their building up his value as trade bait.

#15 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:14 PM

Statistics aside, I'm betting the front office is looking at:


  • Seth Stohs ‏@SethTweets 33m
    Jared Burton hasn't allowed a run in his last 5 outings (including today), 9 of last 11 outings.


    [FONT=georgia]Jared Burton[/FONT] [FONT=georgia]rhp[/FONT]
    [FONT=georgia]2 years/$5.5M (2013-14), plus 2015 option


    And hoping they might be able to spin him into some kind of return.[/FONT]


So I guess there are 5.5 million reasons to keep Burton, or whatever the pro-rated version of that is. But why you need to keep a guy on the wrong side of 30 with declining statistics whose upside is a 4ish ERA from here on out is beyond me. I cant' understand. Maybe I could, but I just wont. He could pitch 10 more scoreless outings on top of his last 5 and I'd still be calling for his roster spot to go to someone else.

#16 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:29 PM

Agreed. He should be gone, replaced with Tonkin or whom ever. I turned the game off in the the bottom of the 9th today. I did not have the guts to deal with it.


Then you turned off a can o' corn, three up three down. :)

#17 ashburyjohn

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:31 PM

Give you this much, Paul: you're no front runner. Posting today after his tidy save proves that.

And I don't disagree with the sentiment that Burton shouldn't be with the team much longer. A trade for a younger version of himself, to give the guys ready for the majors now their chance, would make sense for the Twins and for some contender. I don't like asset management that simply cuts players loose when at their low point, if it can be helped.

#18 JB_Iowa

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:31 PM

I think it is only the pro-rated portion of $3.25 million so not huge dollars.

But one of this front office's traits is a high level of loyalty to veterans.

And I guess it doesn't matter if fans get a case of blue face every time he goes out there.

#19 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:36 PM

Then you turned off a can o' corn, three up three down. :)


Hey give me credit. I visualized it on MLB Game Day in the 9th. I did not need another hole in my wall.:)

I saved some money.

#20 jorgenswest

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:39 PM

It was a mistake to extend Burton into this season. It could have been foreseen. It is to easy to believe that a player in their thirties will remain at the same level of performance two years later. The reality is different.

http://twinsdaily.co...-Old-Set-Up-Man

Similarly, the Twins extended Ryan Doumit in June 2012 after 3 months of good play. He was given a contract through 2014. He did not perform at near the same level of the first three months.

Burton and Doumit also were performing better than their previous few seasons in 2012 so they not only should have been expected to decline but also expected to regress to their mean.

The Twins face a similar decision this year. Kurt Suzuki is 30. He is having a season much better than his previous two. It must be really tempting to give him a multiyear extension. He certainly will be seeking that last good contract this winter.

#21 jokin

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:44 PM

I don't like asset management that simply cuts players loose when at their low point, if it can be helped.


Well then, you obviously don't mind a lot of "asset indigestion", something the Twins seem to specialize in.:whacky028:

#22 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:53 PM

I don't like asset management that simply cuts players loose when at their low point, if it can be helped.


So when should you cut a player? After he's proven that he's slightly better than his worst outing and you've seemingly wasted another 10-20 innings on him out of the pen?

I'm sure I'm just wasting my breath, and all of our time lamenting Jared Burton's continued existence on the roster, but it just boggles my mind that he keeps getting opportunities to pitch for Minnesota when there are guys in Rochester who should have already replaced him on the roster.

He hasn't given up a run in 9 of his previous 11 outings, but one of those was against Toronto with a 6 run lead when he couldn't even get out of the inning before Gardy had to give him the hook to protect their lead. That guy can and WILL show up on the mound again and again if the Twins keep running him out there. The question is will it be with a 6-run lead next time, or will it be in the 8th of a tie ball game and cost the Twins a win?

#23 jokin

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 08:00 PM

So when should you cut a player? After he's proven that he's slightly better than his worst outing and you've seemingly wasted another 10-20 innings on him out of the pen?

I'm sure I'm just wasting my breath, and all of our time lamenting Jared Burton's continued existence on the roster, but it just boggles my mind that he keeps getting opportunities to pitch for Minnesota when there are guys in Rochester who should have already replaced him on the roster.

He hasn't given up a run in 9 of his previous 11 outings, but one of those was against Toronto with a 6 run lead when he couldn't even get out of the inning before Gardy had to give him the hook to protect their lead. That guy can and WILL show up on the mound again and again if the Twins keep running him out there. The question is will it be with a 6-run lead next time, or will it be in the 8th of a tie ball game and cost the Twins a win?


I defended the Matt Guerrier signing from the start of ST, in the face of the typical criticism about putting the band back together. I was pretty insistent that the Twins, if Guerrier proved healthy, surely had Matty-G in mind to replacing Burton at some point- but a point sooner rather than later. I was proven wrong and I'm stumped that the Twins have chosen to retain both of them together for this long. As I've been pointing out recently, and I'll keep firing away for effect-

The MN Twins have NINE pitchers over 30 on their 25-man roster...

The NY Yankees have THREE pitchers over 30 on their 25-man roster...

Edited by jokin, 22 June 2014 - 08:28 PM.


#24 ashburyjohn

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 08:22 PM

Hey give me credit. I visualized it on MLB Game Day in the 9th. I did not need another hole in my wall.:)

I saved some money.


We had a perfectly round little divot, the size of our younger son's elbow, in our living room drywall for several years, from when Bret Favre threw that interception in the 4th quarter of the Vikings playoff game. He leaped from the couch, flung his arms a certain way, and ... oops, this isn't a game thread.

As for Burton, I don't care. Cut him if you want to. He's not important.

Edited by ashburyjohn, 22 June 2014 - 08:25 PM.


#25 The Wise One

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 08:54 PM

So many pieces in the bullpen to choose from this seasonBurton, Guerrier, Swarzak, Tonkin when he was up. A case could be made for moving on from any of these pitchers from the bullpen. Long term, the rest of the bullpen does't exactly strike fear in anyone either. That is the real problem here. Achter, Ibarra, Oliveros may be upgrades. Wouldn't hurt to have a look at them now rather than September. So many different players to complain about, so many to meet the same fate.

#26 Seth Stohs

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 09:09 PM

The grass is always greener, isn't it?

We don't know if Achter, Oliveros, Tonkin ,etc are better than Burton, who has been pretty solid most of his outings. He's had two 2-4 game rough patches, but other than that, just fine. An outing like today's (and most of his last 3-4) have been pretty strong.

As I say often... I'm as big a prospect guys as there is, but guys with track record are important. In fact, I hope some day that Tonkin can be as good as Burton has been.

#27 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 09:14 PM

The grass is always greener, isn't it?
We don't know if Achter, Oliveros, Tonkin ,etc are better than Burton, who has been pretty solid most of his outings. He's had two 2-4 game rough patches, but other than that, just fine. An outing like today's (and most of his last 3-4) have been pretty strong.


We don't know if they'll be better, but I think at this point it's time to find out. This team needs to be building for the future, not meddling with used to bes. Burton has been better lately, but I don't think his recent outings are any more important in predicting his future than the dozen or so before that or even his early season failure. He's a 4ish ERA guy at best this season, and I don't think that guy, proven track record or not, should be taking a roster spot on a team that needs to be looking forward to success, not trying to recapture lightening in a bottle from 2012.

Edited by Paul Pleiss, 22 June 2014 - 09:22 PM.


#28 Seth Stohs

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 09:19 PM

Don't you think they should be a little more out of any playoff race before throwing in the towel?

#29 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 09:21 PM

Don't you think they should be a little more out of any playoff race before throwing in the towel?


Yes. Don't throw in the towel when the team is only a few games out of contention, but I don't think swapping Burton for someone from the AAA pen, or even Pino and recalling a starter from AAA makes the team worse. I wouldn't consider that throwing in the towel. I feel it would be an improvement from the current roster construction.

#30 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 09:23 PM

Don't you think they should be a little more out of any playoff race before throwing in the towel?


Mostly I just can't stand Jared Burton.