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Article: Should We Be Worried About Alex Meyer?

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#1 Nick Nelson

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 10:25 PM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...bout-Alex-Meyer

#2 Seth Stohs

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 11:06 PM

I've talked to several people about this and heard some general themes.

1.) He's not throwing 99, but he's still throwing hard.
2.) Curveball hasn't been very good.
3.) Command has been terrible.
4.) He seems almost unwilling to pitch inside. Hitters shouldn't feel so comfortable with someone with his stuff.

In other words, the stuff is still good, but he's got some things to work on. He needs to work inside. I also wonder if he's to that point in the season where he might just be experiencing a dead arm. Like I tweeted a couple of days ago after his most recent start, I think it may be time to have him skip a start or two.

#3 Reginald Maudling's Shin

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 01:23 AM

I wonder if he would have been called up a month ago if he would have had these issues. It would be nice to have Meyer working with MLB level coaches. It seems to work well for the Cardinals.

It's frustrating to have these guys with clear MLB level talent staying at AAA, stagnating, until they inevitably have a bit of a poor stretch, then the organization can point and say "See!! Not ready!!" For some reason Twins pitchers have to put up Pedro Martinez numbers in AAA to get a callup. Hell, AAA shouldn't even be necessary for high priofile prospects. Meanwhile we have to squeeze every drop of productivity from the likes of Deduno.

#4 The Wise One

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 04:41 AM

I wonder if he would have been called up a month ago if he would have had these issues. It would be nice to have Meyer working with MLB level coaches. It seems to work well for the Cardinals.

I


The young pitchers in the Cardinal's roster all pitched at least 12 games, usually 15-20 in AAA before being called up. They usually started in the bullpen once in the majors. Meyer's just pitched his 15th game for AAA, about the norm for the Cardinals.

#5 nicksaviking

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:40 AM

The young pitchers in the Cardinal's roster all pitched at least 12 games, usually 15-20 in AAA before being called up. They usually started in the bullpen once in the majors. Meyer's just pitched his 15th game for AAA, about the norm for the Cardinals.


I'm guessing he's talking about Marco Gonzalez who is being called up right out of AA and only a year and two weeks removed from being drafted.

Something is off with Meyer and he does look like he needs to get something right in Rochester. However his struggles and his AAA numbers have a very similar look to what was going on with Shelby Miller when the Cardinals surprisingly called him up two years ago just when his luster was starting to wear off.

#6 Lakeside

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:58 AM

I wonder if he would have been called up a month ago if he would have had these issues. It would be nice to have Meyer working with MLB level coaches. It seems to work well for the Cardinals.

It's frustrating to have these guys with clear MLB level talent staying at AAA, stagnating, until they inevitably have a bit of a poor stretch, then the organization can point and say "See!! Not ready!!" For some reason Twins pitchers have to put up Pedro Martinez numbers in AAA to get a callup. Hell, AAA shouldn't even be necessary for high priofile prospects. Meanwhile we have to squeeze every drop of productivity from the likes of Deduno.


I agre that AAA should very rarely be used for top prospects. . . it is an area for marginal prospects and former MLBer's to be housed who can contribute to an MLB roster when needed.

I'm of the opinion that the Twins, under Ryan/Smith, have wasted talented years in the minor leagues. Bryce Harper had 450 ABs before in the minor leagues being brought up. . Trout had 1100 AB. . guys like Wynegar had 659, Hrbek -1100, Carew - 940, Gaetti - 1400. . .guys like Trevor May have thrown out their arms in the minors--he had 677 iniings in the minors before this year started.
If you are good get brought up and find out. . Viola 156 minor league innings, Blyleven 194 minor league innings. Top Twin hitting prospects have this many ABs before this season started. . . Santana 2300, Rosario 1367, Vargas 1300, Sano 1372. . even Buxton has had more than Harper did.
My argument is . . . let 'em play. My hunch, I believe that the Pohlad's will spend money but their is an organizational bent about letting guys come up too early and reach free agency at a young age level because then it is harder to keep them on the roster.

#7 mike wants wins

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 07:16 AM

I wonder if working on a new pitch, instead of what has always worked for him, has thrown him off some. Both mentally and physically. I personally am not worried about him yet.

#8 tobi0040

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 07:27 AM

I agre that AAA should very rarely be used for top prospects. . . it is an area for marginal prospects and former MLBer's to be housed who can contribute to an MLB roster when needed.

I'm of the opinion that the Twins, under Ryan/Smith, have wasted talented years in the minor leagues. Bryce Harper had 450 ABs before in the minor leagues being brought up. . Trout had 1100 AB. . guys like Wynegar had 659, Hrbek -1100, Carew - 940, Gaetti - 1400. . .guys like Trevor May have thrown out their arms in the minors--he had 677 iniings in the minors before this year started.
If you are good get brought up and find out. . Viola 156 minor league innings, Blyleven 194 minor league innings. Top Twin hitting prospects have this many ABs before this season started. . . Santana 2300, Rosario 1367, Vargas 1300, Sano 1372. . even Buxton has had more than Harper did.
My argument is . . . let 'em play. My hunch, I believe that the Pohlad's will spend money but their is an organizational bent about letting guys come up too early and reach free agency at a young age level because then it is harder to keep them on the roster.


I think some of your examples are rare, ie. Harper and Trout. . May had a 4.50 and 4.80 ERA in AA last year and the year prior. So it is hard for me to knock them for having him in the minors still.

I think with Harper, the Nats know he will leave in free agency shortly so they wanted to get him up and get him with the big club as long as they could. That is one of the main reasons why they moved him off catcher. Either way, Harper and Trout are pretty rare.

A realistic comp to those two would be Buxton and Mauer, Buxton was on a similar path as Trout pre-injury and Mauer was up before his 21st birthday and he is a catcher (more to learn defensively).

Edited by tobi0040, 25 June 2014 - 07:34 AM.


#9 Boom Boom

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 07:39 AM

Pinto's caught Meyer's last two games. Bad game calling in play?

Also... Meyer's getting clubbed around by lefty hitters. Could be a result of tinkering with the changeup.

#10 jokin

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 07:50 AM

The young pitchers in the Cardinal's roster all pitched at least 12 games, usually 15-20 in AAA before being called up. They usually started in the bullpen once in the majors. Meyer's just pitched his 15th game for AAA, about the norm for the Cardinals.


Seth Maness, Trevor Rosenthal and Marco Gonzalez would beg to differ with your characterization..

#11 deanlambrecht

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 08:02 AM

Seth Maness, Trevor Rosenthal and Marco Gonzalez would beg to differ with your characterization..


These aren't terribly apt comparisons:

Neither Maness nor Rosenthal are starting pitchers.

Gonzalez pitched 13 games before getting called up, though not at AAA. But the Cardinals are in a very tight spot with two starters on the DL and a third, Shelby Miller (discussed above) having a rough season and now suffering a back injury (though it looks like he may avoid the DL).

#12 markos

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 08:12 AM

This was my speculation two weeks ago:

This is purely speculation on my part, but I think Meyer may have had an undisclosed issue this spring. The basis for my speculation is as follows:- 4/23 and 4/28: Meyer pitched back-to-back scoreless outing with 11 Ks and reaching 100 pitches in both games.
- 5/4 and 5/10: Meyer had back-to-back poor starts, giving up 9 runs in 9 innings, while walking 6, striking out only 7, and giving up 12 hits.
- Since that 5/4 start, Meyer's pitch limit has been reduced to roughly 80. There have been several times where he has been removed from games despite being very effective and a relatively low pitch-count (like the game this past Saturday).


Again, this is all speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Twins noticed some slight reduction in stuff in the early-May time frame. Or perhaps Meyer himself was complaining about something as benign as dead-arm that many pitchers deal with early in the season. Regardless, it appears that the Twins have pulled back the reins on Meyer for the time being. The cause does not appear to be serious, as it hasn't required him to miss any starts. However, I don't think he will called up until he reaches the 100 pitch plateau again. As a comparison, Trevor May has averaged 98 pitches-per-game since May 1st.


Depending on how much you buy into the 120-pitch 'test' that Trevor May underwent as part of his development, it is possible that Meyer underwent a similar 'test' is late April, and that he failed that test. It certainly appears that his arm has not responded very well and that the Twins have severely reduced his pitch limit since then. This is similar to last season, where Meyer had 3 consecutive high-ish pitch count starts in a row, after which he as shutdown for 2 months due to a shoulder issue.

#13 Dantes929

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 08:16 AM

"I think with Harper, the Nats know he will leave in free agency shortly so they wanted to get him up and get him with the big club as long as they could." Does this come into play? Does he get more time with the major league team if he is brought up earlier? I thought it was the same regardless of when he comes up which argues for getting them as polished as possible before bringing them up since you want them at their prime while under team control.

#14 jokin

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 08:19 AM

These aren't terribly apt comparisons:

Neither Maness nor Rosenthal are starting pitchers.

Gonzalez pitched 13 games before getting called up, though not at AAA. But the Cardinals are in a very tight spot with two starters on the DL and a third, Shelby Miller (discussed above) having a rough season and now suffering a back injury (though it looks like he may avoid the DL).


Except that they are terribly apt when you consider that the statement I responded to was the blanket statement about " all the young arms", not starters......And to pitching at "AAA", which was the "norm for the Cardinals", except in the cases I specifically outlined, when it clearly wasn't. And significant to note, Gonzalez is getting the call from AA, instead of the Cards' versions of Pino, Johnson, Darnell, Hernandez, DeVries, et al.

Edited by jokin, 25 June 2014 - 08:39 AM.


#15 Dantes929

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 08:19 AM

."guys like Trevor May have thrown out their arms in the minors--he had 677 iniings in the minors before this year started.
If you are good get brought up and find out. . Viola 156 minor league innings, Blyleven 194 minor league innings. Top Twin hitting prospects have this many ABs before this season started. . . Santana 2300, Rosario 1367, Vargas 1300, Sano 1372. . even Buxton has had more than Harper did." As pointed out earlier May never deserved a shot before this year based on performance and will probably be the next in line for an opportunity. Santana is in the bigs, Rosario and Sano and Buxton would all be making their debuts this year but for injuries. They all had defensive issues to work on as well. I am hoping Vargas gets a chance soon if he continues to rake.

#16 Dantes929

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 08:21 AM

A lot of clamoring for May to join the Twins rotation but he doesn't make the Futures game. What's up with that?

#17 tobi0040

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:32 AM

A lot of clamoring for May to join the Twins rotation but he doesn't make the Futures game. What's up with that?


Some speculation that May is next in line, so committing him to the Futures game 3 weeks out was probably the issue.

#18 jorgenswest

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:38 AM

May and Meyer are too old to be a future. They need to be in the present game soon.

#19 Nick Nelson

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:52 AM

A lot of clamoring for May to join the Twins rotation but he doesn't make the Futures game. What's up with that?


May has now been added to the Futures Game roster.

#20 JB_Iowa

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:55 AM

May has now been added to the Futures Game roster.


Well, there goes my theory that they were thinking of calling him up before that.

#21 tobi0040

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 10:01 AM

Well, there goes my theory that they were thinking of calling him up before that.


This is great news. We get 3 more weeks of May in AAA. In the case of inneffectiveness or an injury, we get an almost 30 year old non-prospect.

#22 DJL44

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 10:06 AM

With the innings limit for Meyer my hope is he pitches fairly well in AAA the rest of the season and is able to spend September in the Twins bullpen.

#23 halfchest

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 10:19 AM

When does Oliveros get called up!

.89 ERA over 30 IP!!! I know he's walking a few too many but he's also striking out a guy per inning and his total WHIP is just over 1. Get that guy up to AAA at the very least.

#24 tobi0040

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 10:53 AM

When does Oliveros get called up!

.89 ERA over 30 IP!!! I know he's walking a few too many but he's also striking out a guy per inning and his total WHIP is just over 1. Get that guy up to AAA at the very least.



If we were making a playoff push, maybe. I agree it doesn't make sense that he is not at least in AAA. But give me 24-25 year old's Tonkin and Achter, with a 1.79 and 2.55 ERA respectively. WHIP's of .77 and 1.13, plenty of K's.

#25 Linus

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 11:44 AM

All prospects are suspects until they actually do it. The idea that a player who is inconsistent or can't prove himself at any level of the minors should just be brought to the majors in hopes they will do better is silly. Prospects fail all the time, even good ones. Confidence is an important ingredient, which is probably more of a reason to be patient and go more slowly, not skip levels. The comparisons with Trout, Harper, et al are not apt. You are talking about once in a generation players. We all (including me) get excited about prospects but sometimes that leads to us getting ahead of ourselves.

#26 gobirds

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 02:04 PM

Except that they are terribly apt when you consider that the statement I responded to was the blanket statement about " all the young arms", not starters......And to pitching at "AAA", which was the "norm for the Cardinals", except in the cases I specifically outlined, when it clearly wasn't. And significant to note, Gonzalez is getting the call from AA, instead of the Cards' versions of Pino, Johnson, Darnell, Hernandez, DeVries, et al.


The Cardinals are in a bit of an injury bind. Tyler Lyons or John Gast would probably have received this start, but are either injured or just back from an injury (not sure). They aren't as old as Pino, but not exactly top 100 prospects. Wacha had 15 AAA starts, but only 2 Rookie league starts prior to that. 8 innings in AA out of the bullpen. But he did transition to the majors in the bullpen, same as Carlos Martinez.

#27 jtkoupal

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 03:10 PM

Every pitcher, especially young pitchers, go through their slumps. This is one of those slumps for Mr. Meyer. He has not pitched well recently, but for most of this year, he has pitched very well. If this continues for a long period of time, then I'll be worried. But I think he'll get it figured out soon. At this point, I'm not worried. This is an indication that he is not quite ready for the big leagues just yet.

#28 jokin

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 04:13 PM

This is great news. We get 3 more weeks of May in AAA. In the case of inneffectiveness or an injury, we get an almost 30 year old non-prospect.


Do you mean Johnson...or Swarzak?:whacky028:

#29 jokin

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 04:28 PM

The Cardinals are in a bit of an injury bind. Tyler Lyons or John Gast would probably have received this start, but are either injured or just back from an injury (not sure). They aren't as old as Pino, but not exactly top 100 prospects. Wacha had 15 AAA starts, but only 2 Rookie league starts prior to that. 8 innings in AA out of the bullpen. But he did transition to the majors in the bullpen, same as Carlos Martinez.


Contrasting and comparing the two teams's promotional pitching philosophies is like comparing Mars to Venus. The names you mentioned as possibilities exemplify that fact. A guy like Angel Castro (age 31) would never have been moved off of the Twins 40-man in ST, and he'd be in the Twins rotation already (a la Pino).

#30 darin617

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 04:29 PM

Meyer & Buxton already played in a futures game. To me it would make an organization look bad if you have a player playing multiple years in a game for top prospects. Or another way to put it would be why has this player not been promoted yet if he is a top prospect.