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Article: Minnesota Twins Minor League Report (6/11): Boss Berrios

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#21 SD Buhr

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 11:22 AM

What is Berrios doing better this season that is making him more effective than he was against inferior competition in A ball?


A year ago, Berrios spent the weeks leading up to the season being used sparingly out of the Puerto Rico bullpen in the WBC. When he did join the CR rotation later in April, he was still being stretched out. He had stuff, but he also tended to lose some composure/focus when things started going bad in a particular inning (as often happens at low-A).

I haven't seen him since March in ST, but I would speculate that having a full spring training to prepare for a rotation role and another full year of physical/mental maturity may combine to see the improved results this season. Hopefully, a more 'normal' year also will mean having the stamina to be more effective through to the end of the minor league season.

I'm really glad to see him having this kind of success this year.

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#22 chamoman

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 12:20 PM

I agree with 2wins87 that there is no sample size to judge Romero or Thorpe yet. C'mon! What is more, these are minor leaguers working on pitches, approaches, and mechanics, not just going for numbers. That is why evaluating prospects is not just a question of spreadsheets.

As any Twins fan, I am also excited to watch Berríos excel this year. As JimCrikket mentioned re: stamina, the good news is that he's already at 70 innings, 30 shy of the 100 he ended up at last year, and there are no signs of slowing down (knock on wood). My only nagging doubt has to do with him being flyball prone in the pitcher-friendly FSL. This factor is always listed as a caveat when judging hitters' performances. So, how much might the size of stadiums be helping José Orlando keep the ball in the park? Any idea from people who have seen him recently?

His HR/9 rate is down from 0.5 to 0.4 from 2013 to 2014, but that may be a park-independent improvement, like his improved H/9, BB/9, and strikeout rate. The homerun rate should be something to watch for in New Britain, whenever he makes it there.

#23 Dantes929

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 02:20 PM

Regarding charoman's comment I am not in love with the strikeout at all costs mentality. Its true that our starters lacked strikeout ability but its not just about power arms. They also lacked stuff and control. If you look at the team ERA leaders they are mostly middle of the pack for strikeouts. If you look at the strikeout leaders they are mostly middle of the pack ERA. Bottom of league strikeouts is a problem. To become top of the league should not be the goal. The goal should be best of league for ERA. The best way to achieve that is with stuff and control. Mph is a subset of stuff. It is not the universe.

#24 nicksaviking

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 02:54 PM

Regarding charoman's comment I am not in love with the strikeout at all costs mentality. Its true that our starters lacked strikeout ability but its not just about power arms. They also lacked stuff and control. If you look at the team ERA leaders they are mostly middle of the pack for strikeouts. If you look at the strikeout leaders they are mostly middle of the pack ERA. Bottom of league strikeouts is a problem. To become top of the league should not be the goal. The goal should be best of league for ERA. The best way to achieve that is with stuff and control. Mph is a subset of stuff. It is not the universe.


This is not true, you'll see that the top pitchers in the league tend to strikeout more batters. Besides, I think ERA is outdated. What's an Earned run anyway? All runs are Earned in my book as they would be 100% preventable had the pitcher struck out the batter as God intended him to.

#25 Pitz

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 03:15 PM

This is not true, you'll see that the top pitchers in the league tend to strikeout more batters. Besides, I think ERA is outdated. What's an Earned run anyway? All runs are Earned in my book as they would be 100% preventable had the pitcher struck out the batter as God intended him to.


What if strike 3 is a passed ball, and upon retrieving it, the catcher throws wildly to first allowing the runner to go to second. As the pitcher strikes out the next batter, the runner attempts to steal third and the catcher's throw skips away, and the runner scampers home. The pitcher strikes out the next 2 batters en route to an improbable 28 strike out performance, going even above and beyond what God intended, yet he loses the game 1-0 as the opposing pitchers scatter 8 hits.

#26 mike wants wins

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 03:25 PM

KLAW called him an extreme flyball pitcher, who has been helped by pitching most of his innings at home today on this chat. I am not saying I agree or disagree, just passing that along.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#27 jokin

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 04:03 PM

KLAW called him an extreme flyball pitcher, who has been helped by pitching most of his innings at home today on this chat. I am not saying I agree or disagree, just passing that along.


Yeah, I caught that, too. Pretty simplistic dismissal of Berrios, attributing most of his success to Hammond Stadium?:

Vic (hopeful twins fan in Minnesota) [via mobile]



[FONT=verdana]Jose Berrios has been pitching great as of late(12.0 K/9). What is his ceiling in the majors?[/FONT]
Klaw (1:58 PM)




[FONT=verdana]Still an extreme flyball guy - and he's been helped by throwing about 70% of his innings at home this year.



[/FONT]

#28 jokin

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 04:09 PM

Yeah, I caught that, too. Pretty simplistic dismissal of Berrios, attributing most of his success to Hammond Stadium?:

Vic (hopeful twins fan in Minnesota) [via mobile]



[FONT=verdana]Jose Berrios has been pitching great as of late(12.0 K/9). What is his ceiling in the majors?[/FONT]
Klaw (1:58 PM)
[FONT=verdana]Still an extreme flyball guy - and he's been helped by throwing about 70% of his innings at home this year.
[/FONT]


Hey Klaw, how about the 28% K-rate, stadium-related? (3rd best in FSL, the two pitchers ahead of him are 25 and 21 years old).

#29 TKGuy

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 04:42 PM

Isn't that Phil Hughes, a fly ball pitcher

#30 RodneyKline

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 04:55 PM

He's not a power hitter. As Lew Ford once told me, there are guys who drive in runs and there are guys who score runs. I would say that Polanco fits into the latter category. I think that he can be a #2 hitter, and that would be great. If he's hitting 8th or 9th, that means the lineup if functioning really well and that would likely be a pretty exciting team to watch.


Funny...so many of us have been complaining that Mauer should be #2 and not 3rd for this exact reason but we are slammed for being Mauer haters. I actually think he should be a lead off hitter because he normally gets on base, he can't hit into a double play in his first at bat as he likes to do a lot and he is not that slow to clog up the bases.

#31 Trevor0333

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 06:50 PM

While you definitely have to consider the fly ball ratio as a factor thats a small piece of the puzzle. He's dominating while being 3 years under the average age, not having been a full time pitcher until later than most. Hammond maybe forgiving the normal OF for them has been Harrison/Kepler/Walker. Not exactly a bunch of burners covering a ton of ground.

#32 Tibs

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 09:30 PM

Hey Klaw, how about the 28% K-rate, stadium-related? (3rd best in FSL, the two pitchers ahead of him are 25 and 21 years old).

Yeah I'm not sure how his K-rate benefits from playing in the stadium. I guess he is ignoring that stat.
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#33 nicksaviking

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 07:19 AM

What if strike 3 is a passed ball, and upon retrieving it, the catcher throws wildly to first allowing the runner to go to second. As the pitcher strikes out the next batter, the runner attempts to steal third and the catcher's throw skips away, and the runner scampers home. The pitcher strikes out the next 2 batters en route to an improbable 28 strike out performance, going even above and beyond what God intended, yet he loses the game 1-0 as the opposing pitchers scatter 8 hits.


Yes we can consider that, and four consecutive past ball strike out's as unearned. I'm fine with that.

#34 Badsmerf

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 07:46 AM

Regarding charoman's comment I am not in love with the strikeout at all costs mentality. Its true that our starters lacked strikeout ability but its not just about power arms. They also lacked stuff and control. If you look at the team ERA leaders they are mostly middle of the pack for strikeouts. If you look at the strikeout leaders they are mostly middle of the pack ERA. Bottom of league strikeouts is a problem. To become top of the league should not be the goal. The goal should be best of league for ERA. The best way to achieve that is with stuff and control. Mph is a subset of stuff. It is not the universe.

Have you even looked at league leaders in stats? Everything you just said is wrong. Do some research. Strikeouts aren't the end all be all, but they are pretty pivotal for a pitcher. It's been said countless times on here, a ball put into play will fall for a hit a certain amount of the time. Some pitchers are a little better at avoiding hits than others, but they are all pretty close. Strikeouts eliminate a ball being put in play and thus less balls in play means less hits, less baserunners, and less runs. Don't buy into the twins gimmick about pitching to contact.. it simply just doesn't work.

#35 jokin

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 08:10 AM

While you definitely have to consider the fly ball ratio as a factor thats a small piece of the puzzle. He's dominating while being 3 years under the average age, not having been a full time pitcher until later than most. Hammond maybe forgiving the normal OF for them has been Harrison/Kepler/Walker. Not exactly a bunch of burners covering a ton of ground.


Yeah, exactly. And can you imagine the grief Klaw might give Berrios about being a FB pitcher, if he were to put up numbers even better than this in New Britain later this year, with Buxton back and Rosario manning LF?

#36 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 08:14 AM

Here's a pretty cool comment from our Facebook page:

"Jose is such a hard worker. When I was his host mom in Elizabethton, he was always the first to bed and always up before I left for work eating his Fruit Loops. I say send him up! He has awesome control and I think he is mature enough for AA."

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#37 spycake

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 10:41 AM

"Jose is such a hard worker. When I was his host mom in Elizabethton, he was always the first to bed and always up before I left for work eating his Fruit Loops. I say send him up! He has awesome control and I think he is mature enough for AA."


Does his choice of Froot Loops contradict the maturity statement? :)

#38 mike wants wins

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 11:17 AM

Why do people get so angry when people disagree with them? Or offensive in needing to attack? KLaw has a different opinion than you, that doesn't make him bad, wrong, evil, stupid.

#39 SD Buhr

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 11:21 AM

Why do people get so angry when people disagree with them? Or offensive in needing to attack? KLaw has a different opinion than you, that doesn't make him bad, wrong, evil, stupid.


No, just because someone disagrees with me, it doesn't make him/her all of those things. It doesn't make them bad or evil.

Just wrong. And maybe stupid. :)

Covering the Cedar Rapids Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com while my alter-ego, Jim Crikket, opines about the Twins and Kernels at Knuckleballsblog.com.

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#40 jokin

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 11:28 AM

Why do people get so angry when people disagree with them? Or offensive in needing to attack? KLaw has a different opinion than you, that doesn't make him bad, wrong, evil, stupid.


I think within the context of the venue in which he presented such little evidence for his case against Berrios, exactly as in the case of Kennys Vargas, Keith Law left himself wide open for the option that his opinions deserved to be questioned for his less-than-cogent conclusions- has anyone called him bad, evil or stupid? Just provided evidence that he might be "wrong" on what appears to be a superficially dismissive conclusion.