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According to LEN3- It appears the Twins are near the end of their patience w/ Hicks

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#1 jokin

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 07:48 PM

The drama swirling around Aaron Hicks continues yet another day. Apparently, LaVelle got a few earfuls on background waiting for the plane to Detroit http://www.startribu...262797911.html:

"[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]HICKS' SHOULDER: Hicks said it's painful for him to throw, so he's getting it checked out in the Twin Cities on Thursday.

But it's inevitable that he will be in the minors soon.

Folks, this is an interesting case. The club is not happy with him. They've given him chances. They finally criticized him in the press for not preparing well. And he hasn't responded.

There are people in the organization who believe he's blowing his chance here.

Hicks needs to get healthy then go to the minors and invest into being a total professional and work on his game. The Twins look at his talent and wonder what is going on. They can't find the right button to push, and you wonder if they are tired of searching for the right button to push."[/FONT][/COLOR]


#2 stringer bell

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:08 PM

I think this shows that the Twins weren't overly impressed with his "improvement" since the he was publicly criticized.

#3 jorgenswest

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:19 PM

Which is better for the team? Keeping this kind of stuff in house or using the press to call out players?

#4 twinsnorth49

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:27 PM

Keeping what in house? I don't think it would take Sherlock Holmes to deduce their dissatisfaction with Hicks, regardless of anything being said publicly.

When Fuld comes back he's gonzo, unless he's DL'd. I believe they would have done it much sooner if Fuld stayed healthy.

#5 Hawkeye12

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:32 PM

Both Hicks and Gardy pretty much acknowledged when he made the switch to just hitting right handed that it was best to do so at AAA, but there simply weren't any other options in center at that time. Santana seems to be doing better by the day and Fuld returning give them the opportunity to do that.

#6 stringer bell

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:32 PM

Keeping what in house? I don't think it would take Sherlock Holmes to deduce their dissatisfaction with Hicks, regardless of anything being said publicly.

When Fuld comes back he's gonzo, unless he's DL'd. I believe they would have done it much sooner if Fuld stayed healthy.

Fuld played the full game tonight and had three hits, including a homer. He got charged with an error, too. I wonder if he plays tomorrow, as well, to show he can play full games back to back. I think he will be in Detroit on Friday night.

#7 twinsnorth49

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:42 PM

Fuld played the full game tonight and had three hits, including a homer. He got charged with an error, too. I wonder if he plays tomorrow, as well, to show he can play full games back to back. I think he will be in Detroit on Friday night.



I think you're right, to clarify I meant Hicks would be gone unless he was placed on the DL, not Fuld. My post wasn't very clear the way I worded it.

#8 jorgenswest

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:46 PM

Keeping what in house? I don't think it would take Sherlock Holmes to deduce their dissatisfaction with Hicks, regardless of anything being said publicly.

When Fuld comes back he's gonzo, unless he's DL'd. I believe they would have done it much sooner if Fuld stayed healthy.


I thought that when LaVelle is writes stuff like "people in the organization believe" that it was comments from actual people in the organization. I didn't realize it was stuff he deduced.

#9 jokin

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:57 PM

Fuld played the full game tonight and had three hits, including a homer. He got charged with an error, too. I wonder if he plays tomorrow, as well, to show he can play full games back to back. I think he will be in Detroit on Friday night.


I'm guessing he's at tomorrow's off-day workout in Detroit. I would think the Twins have seen enough to convince them on Fuld and are anxious to continue their operation of getting Rosario as many CF innings as possible.

But I would be surprised if Fuld's inserted into the regular starting lineup over Santana any time soon, not as long anyways, as Santana is the hottest hitter in baseball not named Lonnie Chisenhall or Mike Trout.

#10 curt1965

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:00 PM

I know there's problems with Hicks, but can someone explain why he is in the Twins'
doghouse? I know he didn't prepare at all, but what are some of the other issues?

#11 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:03 PM

I'd think dropping the switch hitting at an inopportune time without really consulting about it wasn't a great way to go about it and probably left a few wondering about him.

#12 jokin

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:05 PM

I'd think dropping the switch hitting at an inopportune time without really consulting about it wasn't a great way to go about it and probably left a few wondering about him.


That incident seems more like the straw that broke the camel's back. I think they've been wondering about him for quite some time. I had heard things last summer that suggested that they really soured on him as a long-term option after his second demotion.

#13 drock2190

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:05 PM

I think theres some deeper issues here then whats printed. We can speculate all we want but we wont know.

#14 twinsnorth49

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:08 PM

I think theres some deeper issues here then whats printed. We can speculate all we want but we wont know.


Yes but we can't possibly know for sure unless it's publicly stated of course.

#15 stringer bell

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:15 PM

That incident seems more like the straw that broke the camel's back. I think they've been wondering about him for quite some time. I had heard things last summer that suggested that they really soured on him as a long-term option after his second demotion.

Second demotion? I remember him being optioned and not being recalled.

I would love to hear the whole story on Hicks.

#16 Jdosen

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:32 PM

I sure hope they don't just cut bait on him and rather demote him and hope he figures some things out in the minors. The mishandling of Hicks from the get-go last season is one of the things that makes me the maddest in looking back on the past handful of years.
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#17 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:39 PM

If the entire Twins organization had never said a single bad word about Hicks, there still would have been a consensus that Hicks was struggling and wasn't ready for the big leagues.

#18 jokin

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:41 PM

Second demotion? I remember him being optioned and not being recalled.

I would love to hear the whole story on Hicks.



Technically correct, his first trip down in 2013 was for rehabbing a "sore hamstring" on June 9, but the Twins weren't in any hurry to get Hicks back up after that first trip to the DL, and only pulled the trigger to bring Hicks back on July 2, after 3 weeks of watching Willingham hobble around in LF before ultimately shutting Josh down. Sound familiar? Hicks seems to only get/keep a job when all the other alternatives have gone to the DL, and when he outshines everyone in exhibition ball.

[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana]Scott Diamond sent to Triple-A


[COLOR=#999999]Updated: August 1, 2013, 5:43 PM ET[/COLOR]
Associated Press [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]MINNEAPOLIS -- The [/FONT][/COLOR]Minnesota Twins[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana] have optioned left-hander [/FONT][/COLOR]Scott Diamond[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana] and center fielder [/FONT][/COLOR]Aaron Hicks[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana] to Triple-A Rochester.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#333333]The Twins made the moves on Thursday after both players struggled in a 7-2 loss to theKansas City Royals. Diamond (5-10) gave up seven runs -- six earned -- on nine hits in five innings. He has failed to pitch at least six innings in four of his past five starts.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333]Hicks went 0-for-4 with two strikeouts to drop his batting average to .192. Since the All-Star break, he is hitting .162 (7-for-43).[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#333333][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]

After a brief flurry of decent hitting in his first 7 games back in early July, from July 9 to August 1, Hicks had reverted to earlier form, fairly closely resembling his April horror show numbers, only this time it was this: .152/.219/.227/.445.


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Edited by jokin, 11 June 2014 - 09:45 PM.


#19 huhguy

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:58 PM

The whole story? You see it, no reason to wonder other..he had two major chances..I dont believe he will hit at AAA either. I am fine with cutting ties with him.

Edited by diehardtwinsfan, 12 June 2014 - 10:45 AM.


#20 PseudoSABR

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:16 PM

How to motivate an aloof, but talented individual is hardly a new problem, though it's never had a ready-made solution. That said, Hicks' demeanor makes my skin scrawl; send the guy down and hopefully he can stop winging it. For my part, the Twins have been more than forgiving; Hicks' play and poise speak on his behalf.

Edited by PseudoSABR, 11 June 2014 - 10:20 PM.


#21 Kwak

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 11:22 PM

I know there's problems with Hicks, but can someone explain why he is in the Twins'
doghouse? I know he didn't prepare at all, but what are some of the other issues?


Why?
A) The Twins "bet big" on him--and the results make them look foolish.
B) The Twins are huge about playing "The Twins Way". Hicks is perceived as not getting it.
C) Hicks had "lost his future CF status" the moment Buxton was drafted--Hicks became expendable. The fact that Hicks "has struggled" means when Hicks' value has plummetted to "bust" status. The hoped-for return (think trades of Revere/Span) for "moving" Hicks is neglible.
D) Even worse, if Hicks winds-up at another team, turns everything around and becomes a useful ML player--the Twins look even worse than they do today vis`a vis` Hicks.

So yes, there are many who are "upset" with Hicks.

#22 Old Twins Cap

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 11:40 PM

As a long time teacher, I hope the Twins realize that you don't EVER give up on a young person. There's always a chance, probably a decent chance, that someone like Hicks can turn it around. In this case, between Santana and Buxton, there's a good chance we don't need Hicks.

But, his development is still crucial, as a trade chip or a fill-in or a regular. In other words, the Twins should not allow their disappointment in Hicks to distract them from the goal at hand: develop this kid, make him a ball player, whatever it takes.

#23 Pius Jefferson

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 12:21 AM

Arcia seems to have figured out playing in the majors leagues is better than Rochester. Arcia is the better player but Hicks is should be good enough to man CF until Buxton is ready. Which might not be until 2016.

#24 old nurse

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 04:28 AM

Yes but we can't possibly know for sure unless it's publicly stated of course.

But it if it is publicly stated, it is a bad thing to do to the player. The exceptions are if you want the Twins to be transparent for their fans or it is a player you really dislike.

#25 ScottyB

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:15 AM

Hunter was very similar to Hicks. Even after a full season in the bigs, he needed to be sent back to AAA before he figured it out at age 26. Hicks is only 24 and has yet to play a full season in Rochester. He was rushed up because of the 2 trades before he was ready. I hope the Twins don't give up on him. I think he has the potential to be a late bloomer like Hunter and Gomez and if they toss him out, he'll bloom somewhere else. (Gomez was also 26 before he got it - his 3rd season with Milwaukee).

Edited by ScottyB, 12 June 2014 - 05:20 AM.


#26 Beezer07

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 06:55 AM

Yes but we can't possibly know for sure unless it's publicly stated of course.


At which point the FO will be criticized for calling out players through the press...

#27 TheLeviathan

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 06:58 AM

At which point the FO will be criticized for calling out players through the press...


And rightly so. For a young player nothing good comes from lambasting them to the press.

So we have to be content speculating, that's just how it is. For my part, I totally understand the team's frustration. I'm frustrated watching him and his decisions, I can't imagine being on the same team as him.

#28 jorgenswest

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:17 AM

It is an organizational choice. You can decide to be matter of fact and not get into motivations or character about a player.

In yesterday's game, Suzuki was out at second on a close play trying to get a double. It didn't need to be a close play. He didn't hustle out of the box. The Twins have a choice on how they present it. They can not mention it and minimize it if asked. They can be matter of fact by doing no more than simply acknowledging he didn't run hard out of the box. They can elaborate and get into why he didn't run out if the box. This might include joking about it, giving an opinion, speculating on character or motivation. I am not sure if it came up at all in the press conference. If it wasn't asked about, it was Gardenhire's choice whether to bring it up.

Which is better for the team?

#29 Mike Frasier Law

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:41 AM

It's interesting to me because it seems like Hicks has made some significant progress since abandoning switch hitting. Since the switch, his line is 231/412/308. For the last 30 days, it's 267/400/311. Both lines are above average (112 wRC+). It's a better line than Escobar or Nunez in the same time frame (wRC+ of 107 and 102 respectively).

Heck, Fuld's season line is 250/291/365 (wRC+ of 82).

I understand that he's not living up to expectations, but since he was called out, he's been hitting better than average, and he's been hitting better than his replacement. What else is he supposed to do?

#30 gunnarthor

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:47 AM

It's interesting to me because it seems like Hicks has made some significant progress since abandoning switch hitting. Since the switch, his line is 231/412/308. For the last 30 days, it's 267/400/311. Both lines are above average (112 wRC+). It's a better line than Escobar or Nunez in the same time frame (wRC+ of 107 and 102 respectively).

Heck, Fuld's season line is 250/291/365 (wRC+ of 82).

I understand that he's not living up to expectations, but since he was called out, he's been hitting better than average, and he's been hitting better than his replacement. What else is he supposed to do?

Sounds like things behind the scenes are in play. Back while he was still a prospect, the Twins didn't invite him to ST with the ML club (although they could have) b/c he wasn't working hard and they didn't think he deserved the invite. And then he had a very strong AA campaign, IIRC.

He'll get sent down and he might not come back again this season but the Twins aren't going to release him - just like Perkins, who filed a grievance, sucked and pissed off the fanbase to an incredible degree. Hopefully the time in AAA helps him.