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Dozier to Cleanup?

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26 replies to this topic

#1 ThaBamaHamma

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:54 PM

With the pop he's shown this year do you think it would be a good move to have him batting in the 4 hole? Move Willingham up to 3rd with his 0.462 OBP and put Mauer down in the lineup until he starts hitting again. Lineup maybe like this...

Santana (Don't mess with anything working this good)
Suzuki (use him more while he's hot)
Hammer (High OBP and pop)
Dozier (Surprise HR leader)
Morales (early, but making good contact)
Arcia (keep him here for now)
Plouffe (Keep thinking he's due to go on a tear)
Joe (maybe he won't feel pressure hitting 8th and will be loose and get it back)
Escobar (He could start a rally from the bottom of the lineup right now the way he's hitting)

I know it's pretty absurd to have a $23M man to be hitting 8th, but it's pretty absurd to see his RSIP now too.

Gardy... if you're stalking the forum... You're welcome :)

#2 DocBauer

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:06 PM

You know, I want to argue with this but not sure I can.

Only concerns I would have is:

1) Dozier is doing so much, and playing so well at the top of the order, do you mess with the top of the order like that?

2) Does Dozier put too much pressure on himself in that role?

3) Does he run considerably less? I'd hate to remove that part of his game.

Again, not arguing, just some thoughts. And if you did make the move, I'd almost like to see what Escobar would do in the 2 hole.

#3 ThaBamaHamma

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:11 PM

I went back and forth on Suzuki or Escobar for the 2 hole... I think he would do well too. You have a good point about how would Dozier handle the pressure of cleanup, but he sure is playing loose now. Would be interesting to see

#4 kab21

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:56 PM

No, you don't mess with the players that are doing well. Dozier and Willy stay where they are at. Morales stays behind Willy.

The 'bad' version of Mauer still has a .336 OBP. He will come around.

#5 mrmpls

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:58 PM

think gardy would have the guts to move mauer ? should be moved to 6-7-8 your right, at what point is enough with mauer lately. he is KILLING this team in the 3 -hole

I went back and forth on Suzuki or Escobar for the 2 hole... I think he would do well too. You have a good point about how would Dozier handle the pressure of cleanup, but he sure is playing loose now. Would be interesting to see


#6 mrmpls

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:02 PM

with all those 15 r.b.i.s in the 3 hole , tired of money dictacting playing time as gardy previously stated about correia also. couldn't believe that comment. but read it here!!

#7 Shane Wahl

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:09 PM

I would go with:

Santana (for as long as he keeps this up)
Mauer
Dozier

Dozier batting behind Mauer is going to be the ideal situation. And it is actually quite good to have the best homerun hitter on a team batting third.

#8 DocBauer

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:16 PM

Not going to address the Gardy comments, as I already did at length in a previous thread on the subject.

And I'm not going to bash Mauer. Over the years, he's won 3 batting titles, has tremendous overall numbers, and has been an all-star for very real reasons. And while I know I am repeating myself, Mauer being Mauer is an ideal #3 hitter, especially with the move to 1B which should allow him more games played and even better overall production as a result. Unfortunately, to this point, we are simply not seeing the real or traditional Joe Mauer. Is it bad luck? Putting too much pressure on himself to be the best 1B and producer he can be? Or is he still fighting some effects from his concussion last season?

Everyone performs and heals differently. The recent comments from Morneau, however, have me wondering if Mauer's struggles might not be injury/healing related. His OB is still not bad, however, and if you made the Dozier move, I don't know, maybe you keep Mauer at 2 to keep the balance of the lineup intact.

Some really great thoughts here.

#9 DocBauer

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:17 PM

I would go with:

Santana (for as long as he keeps this up)
Mauer
Dozier

Dozier batting behind Mauer is going to be the ideal situation. And it is actually quite good to have the best homerun hitter on a team batting third.


Yep. Kind of what I was wondering. Beat me to it Shane.

#10 twinsnorth49

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:57 PM

I think you're best hitter should bat 2nd, that's Dozier right now and it gives him more PA's over the year. Cleanup is an interesting idea because of the HR totals, but I still think Hammer and maybe eventually Morales are better power options there over the course of the season.

I think the order is fine the way it is.

#11 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:20 AM

If you want to move Mauer down in the lineup, sure I can understand where you are coming from a bit. However moving him down isn't going to "take the pressure" off of him or whatever. Mauer is a Pro's Pro, whatever is causing this slump certainly isn't pressure/expectations. I worry it's concussion related, and hope it's just **** luck.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald

:whacky028::whacky028: :whacky028::whacky028:

#12 TheDean

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:43 AM

I think you're best hitter should bat 2nd, that's Dozier right now and it gives him more PA's over the year. Cleanup is an interesting idea because of the HR totals, but I still think Hammer and maybe eventually Morales are better power options there over the course of the season.

I think the order is fine the way it is.


Since Hammer missed so much time, it might be best to look at HR rates instead of totals. In any case, he and Dozier have nearly identical AB/HR (about 17), so I agree Willingham is fine to stay cleanup, and ideally Dozier bats 3, but 2 is fine since he has speed.

AB/HR leaders on the Twins (Warning - variable sample sizes):
Hammer - 17.3
Dozier - 17.8
Arcia - 18.0
Pinto - 19.3
Parms - 22.3
Nunez - 29.5
All others are below league average (37.3)

#13 Seth Stohs

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:53 AM

I would go with:

Santana (for as long as he keeps this up)
Mauer
Dozier

Dozier batting behind Mauer is going to be the ideal situation. And it is actually quite good to have the best homerun hitter on a team batting third.


This is what I would do as well.

#14 Steve Lein

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:54 AM

I'd maybe put Dozier in the 3-hole, but not cleanup. There is a psychological factor here as well. Even if a guy is playing "loose," it's a different approach batting fourth than second like he has been. Do not underestimate how this can mess with players.

Justin Morneau was placed in the cleanup spot for most of his early career, but it was when they slid him down to #5 that he really started hitting, and won the MVP.

Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 40, Speed: 40. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but can sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)


#15 nicksaviking

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:59 AM

People complain as it is when Mauer takes a walk as opposed to driving in runs, especially late in games. Just think how much he will be pitched around with the #9 batter hitting behind him. I like Mauer at #2 with Dozier or Willingham at #3.

#16 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:03 AM

I like Dozier right where he is. His base running is improving so you want him near the top, but he has some pop so that a first inning HR might put you up 2-0 instead of 1-0, which is huge, like last night.

#17 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:09 AM

People complain as it is when Mauer takes a walk as opposed to driving in runs, especially late in games. Just think how much he will be pitched around with the #9 batter hitting behind him. I like Mauer at #2 with Dozier or Willingham at #3.

People don't often complain when Mauer walks in RBI situations when he doesn't get anything to hit..we complain when he lets 1 or 2 meatballs go by unchallenged and then is forced into trying to hit with 2 strikes, which is a situation he's in a lot.

And since we're advocating moving Dozier based on 2014 results, Mauer's May OBP was .290. So far in June: .286. Why do we want him at #2 again?

Dozier is doing just fine where he is. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

#18 spycake

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:13 AM

If you want to move Mauer down in the lineup, sure I can understand where you are coming from a bit. However moving him down isn't going to "take the pressure" off of him or whatever. Mauer is a Pro's Pro, whatever is causing this slump certainly isn't pressure/expectations. I worry it's concussion related, and hope it's just **** luck.


Not to make this a Mauer thread, but yeah, I've got the concussion fear too. We're nearing statistically significant sample size and he's having easily the worst stretch of his career, in just about every category.

What is it with the Twins and career-altering concussions? I can't immediately think of this happening to any other players or teams, yet it's apparently happened to the Twins twice in four years, to star-level players, no less.

#19 spycake

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:26 AM

I like Dozier right where he is. His base running is improving so you want him near the top, but he has some pop so that a first inning HR might put you up 2-0 instead of 1-0, which is huge, like last night.


Agreed. I'd leave him at #2.

I'd like to get Mauer out of the middle of the order, although I doubt that will happen. Actually, if/when Santana/Escobar come back to earth, that might be a good time to try Mauer at leadoff!

#20 baddunkjoe

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:27 AM

Just a thought, if you have dozier hit behind mauer you pretty much negate dozier's speed.

#21 Beezer07

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:01 AM

Dozier seems to have taken a step this year. Willingham has been able to get on base well for a couple years (even last year when his BA was horrendous, his OBP was like 100 points higher). Mauer has gotten on base at high levels throughout his career, not including the past two months. Those three guys need to be near the top of the lineup.

I like what someone said about Mauer then Dozier negating Dozier's speed on the bases. I, personally, would go 1. Dozier 2. Mauer 3. Willingham. If Dozier hitting so many home runs from the 1 spot is a "problem," it's a good problem to have. If we're that concerned about it, put a guy who can OBP 330-350 in the 9 spot.

#22 twinsnorth49

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:22 AM

Actually, if/when Santana/Escobar come back to earth, that might be a good time to try Mauer at leadoff!


I've thrown this out there in the past as well, I think it has a lot of merit.

#23 Kirby_waved_at_me

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:32 AM

If we're that concerned about it, put a guy who can OBP 330-350 in the 9 spot.


Yeah - like Aaron Hicks! He's got an OBP of .338 this year. Or Escobar if you want a little doubles power to go along with the decent OBP (.341 so far).

#24 Beezer07

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:39 AM

Yeah - like Aaron Hicks! He's got an OBP of .338 this year. Or Escobar if you want a little doubles power to go along with the decent OBP (.341 so far).


If Hicks can OBP that high while bringing his slugging up a little, I'd be fine with him being #9

#25 Kirby_waved_at_me

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:44 AM

BTW - Escobar has 20 doubles already. A pleasant surprise!

#26 Twins33

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 02:26 PM

I'd want them to do this:

Mauer
Santana
Dozier
Willingham
Morales
Arcia
Escobar
Plouffe
Suzuki

Wouldn't even mind batting Mauer 9th, but I know that would never happen. I just feel he should be in front of Santana and Dozier right now because of the way those two are hitting.

#27 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 03:37 PM

The addition of Morales to the lineup and the way he has been hitting, makes this discussion relevant.